Not being Christian,
Christians. (if i get baptised) So probably the damned!
Which I was also probably a part of as a JW. So it's not new.
What accusations do you have about us JWs? AND what group are YOU a part of?
by theMadJW 282 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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mindmelda
Oh, eternal damnation can't be as bad as living in some small towns I've lived in. It seemed like an eternity anyway.
Time is all relative, you know, at least for humans(I don't know how it is for other theoretical beings, being human is what I understand best). You'd have to define both "eternal" and "damnation" for me in a believable way for me to be scared of eternal damnation.
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theMadJW
I'll try toget here more often, now that I see some Thinkers here!
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'Hellfire'- a non-Biblical word
You may not find that exact word, but the Lord's teaching is clear:
Then he will say to those on his left hand, "Go away from me, with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire created for the devil and his angels."... And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the upright to eternal life. [Matthew 26: 41, 46]
This shows that the Watchtower's denial of eternal damnation is not scriptural.
GLT"
FIRE was used everyday to cook- and to destroy: they threw their trash over the wall into Gehenna, where fires from sulphur were used to destroy it...EVERYONE listening to Christ knew what he meant- only CHURCHianity has perverted his words!
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not a captive
The question is "What accusations do you have about us JWs?"
JW stands for Jehovah's Witnesses. When I got baptised I didn't know that it was only a brand-name. I actually believed it stood for something. I thought I was part of a group of Christians who cared about the truth like Jesus does. But something happened: the Organization told me I could not bear witness any more when I prefered the Bible's telling of Genesis 22 to the bloody version in My Book of Bible Stories.
I asked this question in an elders' meeting and I ask you here: Should I stick to the Bible or just repeat what my "leaders" say? Your answer will incur accusation or not depending on who you want to please.
I know how I answered, I stand accused because I told the JWs that I would not be quiet. I will keep knocking, asking, seeking the holy spirit to direct me.
I told the brothers that I will never be a part of a group ever again. We either are or we are not a true Christian and will fellowship with others who find nothing to condemn in us.
There is no true religion. There is only the Truth.
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Heaven
Any religion that says they are 'the Truth' is contradicting the Bible.
edited to add: The group I am a part of is 'Homo sapien'.
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Paulapollos
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“What accusations do we have about JW's? “
I don't have any, MADJW – only observations, which I have formed only through personal experience with the people who guide some of the thinking of the theological side of Jehovah's Witnesses. Other posters have shown various problems with specific issues, so I will not repeat them, but I am sorry to say that Jehovah's Witnesses make great claim to be the very epitome of Biblical students, deeply knowledgeable and respectful of the Bible, and yet the facts remain:
The majority of “Biblical Scholarship” carried out by JW's and printed in the Watchtower is currently nothing more than rehashed versions of Matthew Henry, William Barclay, and edited selections from the early Church Fathers, and selected Protestant reformers. The Judaizing element of the Writing Committee and their complete refusal to face certain basic facts about 1 st Century Christianity has coloured the interpretation of Biblical passages, and the deeply flawed hermenutical framwork of Jehovah's Witnesses is absolutely clear for anyone to see. These deeply flawed systems are repeatedly foisted onto JW's in the form of differing doctrines that affect Biblical interpretation, rather than the other way round.
The claim that Jehovah's Witnesses “teach what the Bible teaches” is simply untrue – no religion, as far as I know, teaches that every letter, gospel and prophecy should be read in it's literary, historical, socio-cultural and religious context, that each argument in the letter should be understood in connection to it's antecedents, and with a close understanding of the impact in the listeners mind, a la relevance theory. Jehovah's Witnesses are particularly bad at this. As is typical of post-Reformation sects, “proof-texting” does not provide an argument with any sound underpinnings – that requires an understanding of the nuances of the text, something spectacularly lacking within the Writing Department. Jehovah's Witnesses teach what they feel God should be like, and look for proof from the Bible, just like every other sect, and religion, and just about all of us. In the case of the Watchtower, Jehovah seems to have decided that 1951 was the ideal year in terms of dress and grooming and entertainment and so on and so forth.
The idea that Jehovah's Witnesses are a special prophetic group is yet another twisted application of scripture, rooted in the American exceptionalism of the 18 th and 19 th centuries, as well as the “Great Awakening” and the 2 great American Religious Revivals. Using the Bible to “prove” that the events of 1919 that happened to JW's were foretold is not hard – because every group can do something similar. I am now confident that I can prove that in Revelation it was foretold that I would have 2 cups of tea this morning. Anyone can go around proving prophecy – because that is the problem. This ridiculous focus on prophecy, when as far as I can see, the focus of the Bible is a character called Jesus, and union with him, in spirit, with all that that entails, not that Jehovah's Witnesses know that either. Jehovah's Witnesses are obsessed with God intervening in historical events in the twentieth century, because they are faithless. They demand God was acting in history to “prove” they are his people, seeking to dictate to God what he “must”, “reasonably”, “evidently” was doing for them. They are just like the Israelites, demanding he act and seeking to regulate his behaviour according to what they desire – “Give us a sign Lord, give us a sign, because otherwise, we might just not believe in you (as if God will suddenly have a heart attack, or wipe everybody out because nobody believes in him – I don't see too many suddenly dying atheists and agnostics around, do you? Somehow, I'm not convinced that if God is God, he is as insecure as the leadership the WT portray him to be) Oh, and while you're there God, can you tell us more about the lions and tigers and dolphins and gigantic houses and luxurious yachts in the New System? After all, we've been working hard, and we want to know – do pioneers get bigger lounges and a conservatory on the back of the house?” A complete joke.
Forgive me if my tone comes across as annoyed, but this has been building up, and I am annoyed with the arguments presented by “themadjw”, and the various JW apologists around. Please don't take that as a personal insult, MADJW, it is most certainly not – I don't know you, and I have absolutely no issue with you as a person, but I cannot pretend that your arguments don't seem to be superfluous to me, along with the constant misquotes of scripture, completely out of context, as practised so skilfully be JW in general. It must be me, I must not have the intellectual rigour to comprehend the deep and convincing arguments being demonstratied. Or maybe it is that my heart is not in the right condition? How sad, I wish I could find the scriptural teachings that discusses that particular theological idea, taught by Jesus and the prophets. And no, the soil parable is not applicable, nor is the “ones drawn to me”, because they are discussing other issues. And if Paul is mis-quoted one more time, regarding the “wisdom of the world”, I will scream. For the last time, can we have some intellectual honesty here – he was talking about the idea that more sophisticated reason was required to accept Christ, and that the Christian message must be more than simply Christ impaled, and the glory of his death, burial and resurrection. He was not talking about “intellectuals” being unable to understand the Bible, because they don't have the right heart condition. End of.
I simply cannot understand how the above facts, related to all the very important specifics so ably discussed by the posters on this forum, don't weigh on the mind of the upper echelons of God's Own People ™, or are ignored by the rank and file, which I presume MADJW to be, although if I am wrong and he is actually a member of the Writing Department, I apologise. Is it me, or is there a spectacular failing of intellect and wit on the part of these people? Alas, I remember this is exactly why I normally nod and smile, and agree when JW apologists spout these tired old arguments again and again – they are not actually interested in discussion, they just need to reinforce the persecution complex, and reaffirm the chosen people belief, whilst rejoicing in their status as God's Own People.
PP
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jookbeard
superbly put PaP, the MadJW wont answer such a sound well laid out objection like that
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JWoods
superbly put PaP, the MadJW wont answer such a sound well laid out objection like that
True that he wont answer it, but I suspect more posts (like yesterday) are to follow in order to irritate us.
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Life is now
Thank you Paulapollos.
I have already put the last nails in the coffin of my beliefs in Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines. It has been obvious to me for a long time that the governing body are not the exclusively spirit directed group that they claim to be and it gets more and more glaringly obvious each piece of their literature I read.
BUT, emotionally I couldn't let go completely until two nights ago I downloaded, from Commentary Press, Crisis of Conscience. I read it through the night and went to bed at 4 am feeling much freer and relieved.
Paulapollos, I've found all your posts extremely helpful and I can't find the words to express my appreciation for your comment today helping me to break free.
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theMadJW
"MadJW,
Unfortunately, your replies above show what is mostly wrong with JW's: you don't emulate Jesus in how you treat others.
Your sarcastic, erroneous tone betrays you......"
Hmmm! Think of .....Elijah, who asked the Priests of Baal if Baal was out taking a Crap! Or Jesus, who told the Pharisees they looked so wonderful, but inside were full of every foul and disgusting thing (White-washed Graves), or Paul who reffered to "Super-fine Apostles", to Jehovah Himself who had a Jackass 'talk' to Balaam!
Deceovers deserve no honor, nor respect- altho I hope they have a change of heart!