Did Jesus ever claim Messiahship?

by AK - Jeff 81 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Good point, Snowbird. I have no evidence to suggest that Mary Jo is right about this. Only her words to that effect. Hers is just one viewpoint expressed among an ocean of such. She is supportive of Christianity in what I have read so far, not against it. She has done considerable research to write this book. Still, she could be lying admittedly. She does not seem to have an axe to grind in the matter. I am not assuming that she is absolutely correct, though she lands in close proximity to my viewpoint on this one point.

    Common sense tells me that more evidence would have to come into play than the words of two or three dead supporters of a Jewish rebel in the midst of chaotic political turmoil of the day. A day in which admittedly there was an openness, in at least some factions of Judaism, for the appearance of a 'Messiah' or 'Christ' to provide relief from Roman rule. It would not seem unusual for some to take advantage of the favorable political atmosphere to promote their particular answer to that hope. Those words, by those long dead supporters, have transformed the world in many ways. But that does not make them attributable to the Son of God, as Messiah and King for all of mankind, just because a few catholic bishops elected to include them in a canon later dubbed the Holy Bible.


  • snowbird

    Those are good points that you make also, AK-Jeff.

    My advice to you: KEEP SEARCHING.

    AT-Jeff (too many Jeffs around these parts!), if anyone, anyone asks in all sincerity for Holy Spirit, the request will be granted.


  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Define irrefutable.


    As example, if I were Jesus, I would just put a nice holographic image in the clouds saying so. No big deal to one who can raise the dead, and supposedly wants all of mankind to believe in him and have everlasting life. Why not? It would put all the naysayers to shame. And if I wanted to be 'righteous' I would not have to spend all my life looking for the 'truth' - it would be beyond denial. If I denied now - Jesus could just kill me. As it is - I have to conjur up 'faith', whatever that means, in things I can neither see nor hear nor sense with any of my 'god given senses', and I have to base it on words by people who may or may not have actually said such things, found in a book that may or may not have any attachment to Jesus or God at all.

    Why should God hold it against me that I have no faith, when that faith would have to be chosen from among tens of thousands of various belief systems, based on a dozen separate books called 'Holy'? Why 'faith'? Why not reality? God/Jesus is said to be in charge. He did not expect Adam and Eve to base worship on 'faith' - no he appeared to them. He appeared to Noah. He appeared to Jacob. He appeared to Moses.

    Why not appear to us? Wipe out the doubt and let us base our faith on the senses he gave us? Instead of on ancient words, collaborated by ancient believers in a man, who may or may not have been what they say he was?


  • AllTimeJeff
    AT-Jeff (too many Jeffs around these parts!), if anyone, anyone asks in all sincerity for Holy Spirit, the request will be granted

    Ok. While I don't wish to make this too much of a semantical issue, if you could tighten this up: From your worldview, should I assume that others, myself included, who have already asked, lack sincerity in the absence of holy spirit?

  • cantleave

    Snowbird, How can you differentiate between a conviction compelled by Holy Spirit and just normal human emotion. The most spiritual emotion I have ever experienced was seeing Pink Floyd live in 1994 during the song comfortably numb. I am not being flippant, but I am sure that if I made progressive rock my religion I can convince myself that the Holy Spirit was operating on me.

  • PSacramento


    I wish that God would work that way !!

    I don't think God holds it against people that have no faith because they need to "SEE" to have faith, look at Thomas, he neede to see and he knew Jesus, personally !

    I think we can be forgiven our lack of faith under the circumstances.

    But for those that believe based on faith, then I think that God has been able to touch them in a special way, in the sense that THEY have been able to RECEIVE God in their own way.

    I think we tend to forget that the journey to God, is we choose to make it, is a very PERSONAL one and indeed, it shoudl be.

  • snowbird

    AT-Jeff and Can'tLeave, if you ask and first don't receive, then keep asking until you do receive.

    Peace and blessings.


  • undercover
    Jesus did`nt need a Ship..
    He could walk on water..

    Isn't anyone going to give OUTLAW a high five for that one?

  • PSacramento

    Calling Jesus, the Son of God, He who is One with the father, the Messiah is not needed, that is like calling Rocky Marciano "the champ" or Babe Ruth "slugger" or John Holmes "meat", its just redundant.

    As for Outlaw, not only did Jesus walk on water, he moonwalked *cue MJ's smooth criminal beat*

    High five for the desperado dude !!

  • BurnTheShips
    Did Jesus ever claim Messiahship?

    When he spoke with the Samaritan woman at the well.

    When Jesus asked: Who do you say I am? Peter called him the son of God and Jesus said the Father had revealed this to him. In John 1 Nathanael called him the Son of God and King of Israel. Jesus did not contradict him.


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