Imperfection is irrelevant. Who has the right to rule? (page 8)

palmtree67

"It is up to us to see what He has revealed"

Sorry, but, you go against your own line of reasoning here, Spike.

Is it up to us to see what is revealed OR is it up to the GB? They say it's up to them and we have no say in the matter.

It is up to each of us (even each of the GB) individually to become reconciled with Jehovah. We each must decide as a matter of free will who has the right to rule in each of our own lives. As we sow, so shall we reap. If we sow to the flesh, we reap corruption and death; if we sow to the spirit, we reap life abundantly, even eternally as we continue to sow to the spirit.

isaacaustin

Spike,

Scripture does not support Christian leaders ruling in our lives. It supports them teaching and taking the lead in worship, in spreading the Gospel.

You give a answer that basically says it is up to each and every one of us to pick the right leader to follow, then once we find that leader we are to follow everything they say. Sorry, but such corporate accountability is not Scriptural.

Spike Tassel

Isaac puts wrong words in my mouth. I do not give him the right to rule what my words mean. I keep the right for myself.

reniaa

Hi bluecanary thank you for your thoughfulreplies.

To a certain degree I agree with you bluecanary. A religion will certainly show fruitage God's blessing and holy spirit but if you look at Moses his imperfection did effect his rulership and we cannot expect everything to be perfect. Maybe more what we should be looking for is the humbleness too change if we have gone down the wrong path.

Psalm 25:9
He guides the humble in what is right and teaches them his way.

Zephaniah 2:3
Seek the LORD, all you humble of the land, you who do what he commands. Seek righteousness, seek humility; perhaps you will be sheltered on the day of the LORD's anger.

accepting we are imperfect until..

1 Corinthians 13:10
but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

Jesus is our leader but if we weren't meant to have overseers among ourselves why did he set up the appostles, elders even more so afterwards through Paul?

the set up of a ruling body is their in the bible clearly and to deny that is foolishness.

Acts 16:4
As they traveled from town to town, they delivered the decisions reached by the apostles and elders in Jerusalem for the people to obey.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Acts 20:28
Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

so put with romans the volume of evidence in the greek scriptures show it's obvious the overseer arrangement is at Jesus's direction and God's spirit guidance.

In the end we an only decide for ourselves. I am happy in myself that Jehovah's Witnesses are the most bless with holy spirit at this time and the fruitage is their actually teaching people to follow Jehovah and his actual son Jesus.

For the record if they starting teaching trinity or killing in wars I wouldn't follow them because they are not biblical.

2 Corinthians 10:3
For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does.

but we can aim towards perfection and doing God's will is what we should be doing at this time however imperfectly.

Philippians 3:12-13 (New International Version)

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,

Sorry I have quoted a lot of scriptures but I think at this time it is all about reaching out to god knowing he has sent his son to give us the helping hand but we need to do this together as the bible directs. If we believe in Jehovah and his son Jesus we should be together even in imperfection.

Reniaa

AllTimeJeff

Spike, you could make yourself a lot more clear, and you know that.

isaacaustin

then explain your gibberish spike....

Reniaa, I agree leaders are Biblically founded...how to lead is the question, the spirit in which one takes the lead.

A few errors is your post. jesus set up the Apostles, but Apostolic authority ended in them. Paul set up overseers, yes to combat wrong teachings enetering the church. Acts 16:4 is not an example of a ruling body. Read ch 15 in its entirety. You will ses it was the apostles, all the elders and the cong convening to discuss the problems caused by the cong in Jeru. Acts 15:4- they, speaking of Paul and Barnabas, were "received by the congregation and the apostles and the older men". verse 12 says “At that the entire multitude became silent, and they began to listen to Bar'na·bas and Paul.”

Your statement that the JWs are most blessed with the Holy Spirit is simply an assertion with no foundation, based on the fact that you do not beleive the trinity. Even if the trinity were false, the JWs do not follow Jehovah and Jesus, they follow man. There leadership does not follow jehovah and jesus- their tainited history and false prophecy proves that.

bluecanary

Isaac puts wrong words in my mouth. I do not give him the right to rule what my words mean. I keep the right for myself.

Spike, play nice. No one is trying to rule anyone here. If someone misunderstood what you said, then clarify.

Spike Tassel

I do my best with who I am and the gifts I have. Others do as they are and as they have.

Reniaa's post must have taken a quite a bit of time. I'm glad that she has such a deep connection that she can do that.

isaacaustin

Deep connection with what? Copy paste of verses is quick spike. And she misapllied a good number of them so needed to be corrected.

Imperfection is irrelevant. Who has the right to rule?

Philippians 3:12-13 (New International Version)

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