To shamus, mkr32208 and Deputy Dog: Despite the fact that I quoted her, this thread is neither about reniaa nor directed to her. I thought she brought up a thought-provoking topic and I created a thread based upon it, nothing more. She is as welcome to post here as anyone else. The only people here derailing my thread are you. Stop talking about her here.
Imperfection is irrelevant. Who has the right to rule?
by bluecanary 117 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Deputy Dog
bluecanary
The only people here derailing my thread are you. Stop talking about her here
. Sorry, but like I said "She provides proof that JWs believe the WT has this authority." So its what she represents, (in this case) that needs addressing. Again, I'm sorry, I'm on your side. But to answer your question "Who has the right to make decisions for you?" Other than God himself, I don't believe anybody has that "right" unless I give up my rights. Then my rights become a responsibility to the person (or people) I give them up to.
I think God does. But as a "loving heavenly father", I'm not sure he wants to rule absolutely over us.
James White wrote a great book dealing with some of this called "the Potter's Freedom"
I've often wondered, for those who think of God's relationship to us like a parent-child relationship, do humans ever attain indpendent adult status?
I don't think so. But the His grace and love for us gives us a freedom that the law will never be able to give.
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reniaa
Name any ruler from the bible (obviously accept Jesus who is perfect) that has ruled without mistakes and imperfection?
Moses? no imperfect and made mistakes till the end.
King david? nope murderous adulterer:s
Solomon? Nope eventually turned to pagan gods.
Jewish leaders? Nope killed God's son
Appostles? Nope they at one point believed Jesus would keep one of them alive until Jesus returned and got rebuked for it, as well as constantly fighting over who was the greatest.
Current governements? the downward trend in people voting indicates a lack of interest and cynicism in the rulers we have. America had an upsurge in voting with obama america's first black american president but his honeymoon period is now over and he is becoming unpopular for not keeping to certain promises.
All organisations have their leaders including God and his angels who within themselves had at least one Archangel.
humanity is humanity and and what appeals for me is following bible direction and worshiping Jehovah.
imperfection is our lot under the time cmes.
Reniaa
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DaCheech
reniaa, don't get your point
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bluecanary
reniaa, thank you for your response. I agree that all leaders have and alway will make lousy decisions. Isn't that why Jehovah didn't want Israel to have a human king?
Yes, people get frustrated with the way politics works. We are given a choice of gala apples or fuji apples when what we really want is a pizza. With the governing body, we haven't got even that much of a choice. And when politcal leaders become unpopular, we have the freedom to question them and express our displeasure. As Oscar Wilde said, "Discontent is the first step in the progress of a man or a nation."
If you feel that living by standards in the Bible and trusting in God makes you a better person, I absolutely respect that. If the governing body tells you to do something or believe something that you think conflicts with what the Bible says, which do you choose to follow? Which one would God rather have you do?
The God of the Bible has never before chosen only one select group to whom he speaks. He has always dealt with multiple individuals and entities. Is it not possible that he does this today? What is the criteria for determing whom God has spoken to?
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AllTimeJeff
To shamus, mkr32208 and Deputy Dog: Despite the fact that I quoted her, this thread is neither about reniaa nor directed to her. I thought she brought up a thought-provoking topic and I created a thread based upon it, nothing more.
For what this is worth, I want to applaud bluecanary for dealing head on with a topic that is controversial and not easily discussed. Might I suggest the question at hand be the relevant as opposed to who brings it up?
I still go back to my post in this thread as having merit to the question, insofar as imperfection is a big time code word for the borg. Perfection, to which bluecanary is alluding to, is a (not so) subtle divergence into the big question: Who had the right to rule? Does a claim of perfection matter?
Once I get my head out of my own @$$ tomorrow, I might have more profound thoughts, but I get what bluecanary is trying to accomplish here. Good discussion!
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bluecanary
Thanks Jeff. I can't wait to hear more of your thoughts.
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mkr32208
The only people here derailing my thread are you. Stop talking about her here
Umm you mentioned her twice in your first post, not me... Dumbass...
As to the 'right' to rule. NO ONE has the inherent RIGHT to rule, that's based on a false premise. The RIGHT to rule is a mandate from the people not an inborn right. WTF are you talking about king Arthur and the devine right of kings? Or the concept of god having the right to rule us? Why? Why does god have the right? My parents don't have the RIGHT to tell me what to do with my life or rule me the entire concept is ridiculous nobody and nothing has the RIGHT to rule. No matter what any wandering ass hole says they don't have the RIGHT to rule...
Strange women lying in ponds is no basis for a system of government! Your not the emperor just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at you!!!
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BluesBrother
My two pennyworth..
If we accept God as existing as a Supreme Being then it is logical that he has the right to rule and the wisdom to care for us. The parent and adult son illustration is not really fitting because we can never grow up to be equal with God.
Q] Does he operate through the F & D Slave?
They claim that he does but do their actions and track record suggest that His Spirit is really there? { You will have to answer personally}
I have no quarrel with men being only human. If the G B show humanity in their personal lives, as did Moses and Peter , that is OK. But when Peter and others gave direction and wrote their writings, the Spirit saw to it that it was was spot on correct. Their humanity did not pollute the message. They could not have claimed imperfection because God was really acting through them
If the G B today say that human imperfection causes them to make errors of doctrine then they admit that their writings are just the product of flawed human reasoning
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DaCheech
i would rather live 10fold in todays era than in any of ancient israels era.
even when "god" was ruler of israel