Hey Spike, is God limited?
Yiz
Is God's name absent in the Christian Scriptures?
by Spike Tassel 163 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Spike Tassel
If none of the original writings of the NT have yet been found, it follows that we cannot yet know what language these originals were in, and we cannot know yet whether the divine name was found in them as per se. Any hypothesis in these areas will need to be substantiated with scientific proof, as they say. But, and this is a large but, the fact that paraphrases in the NT are definitely made from the OT (which did use the Tetragrammaton), it then follows that God's name is at least implicit to the NT, as John 17:6 makes clear. The OT distinction between Jehovah and his Master Worker (including at Psalm 110:1) makes it clear to me that the clear distinction between Jehovah and his Master Worker (the only example we have of a father resurrecting a son, so far as I know) must be maintained.
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Chalam
Why reveal your name only to remove it?
Here we go again.
Take the plank out of your own eye before you go pointer the finger.
Maybe you can explain the contradiction that appears in the NWT when you insert the name "Jehovah" instead of Lord in these verses Acts 2:21 Romans 10:13?
Acts 4:10-12 (New International Version)
10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 He is
" 'the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the capstone.' 12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."The NWT testifies to this contradiction. NWT Acts 4 let it be known to all of YOU and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ the Naz·a·rene´, whom YOU impaled but whom God raised up from the dead, by this one does this man stand here sound in front of YOU . This is ‘the stone that was treated by YOU builders as of no account that has become the head of the corner.’ Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.” No, it is clear, kurios means Lord, God or Sir. It is a noun, not a name! http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/2962.htm
2962. kurios (koo'-ree-os) God, Lord, master, Sir
κ?ριε κ?ριοι κυρ?οις κ?ριον κ?ριος κυρ?ου κυρ?? κυρ?ων
From kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Master (as a respectful title) -- God, Lord, master, Sir.
The NWT is not accurate at all but a sham.
All the best, Stephen
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isaacaustin
spike says:
But, and this is a large but, the fact that paraphrases in the NT are definitely made from the OT (which did use the Tetragrammaton), it then follows that God's name is at least implicit to the NT, as John 17:6 makes clear. The OT distinction between Jehovah and his Master Worker (including at Psalm 110:1) makes it clear to me that the clear distinction between Jehovah and his Master Worker (the only example we have of a father resurrecting a son, so far as I know) must be maintained
My reply:
It follows that God's name is revealed to us in the person of Jesus to look to for salvation. God did not have any master worker- Proverbs is speaking of wisdom personified, who dwells with other qualities.
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cabasilas
Since true Christians rely on both OT and NT as interdependent, then it follows that when Jesus spoke to Jehovah in prayer at John 17:6 that he had "made your name manifest", he was thus referring to the name of God that English-speaking Christians commonly call Jehovah, etc.
Thanks for the reply. My question was whether there was any Scripture that records Jesus uttering the Divine Name in a prayer. You reply with that he 'referred' to the Divine Name. Just to make the point clear:
Is there a Scripture that records Jesus uttering the Divine Name in prayer?
If not, then does the usage of "name" by Jesus refer to "Yahweh" or "Jehovah"? "Name" can be used metaphorically to refer to "reputation," "character," and "authority." Interestingly, the Watchtower referred to this metaphorical use of "name" in the May 1, 1973 Watchtower, page 259:
WHAT GOD’S NAME MEANT TO JESUS
God’s “name” is also important to Jesus Christ. Just before his death he prayed: “I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world . . . watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me . . . And I have made your name known to them and will make it known.”—John 17:6, 11, 26.
We are not to believe that when Jesus said, “I have made your name known” or “manifest,” he referred to only the pronunciation of the divine name. His listeners were Jews who, reportedly with the exception of the high priest, did not know the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, the four Hebrew letters making up the name. Then, how did Jesus, by more than pronouncing the name correctly, ‘make God’s name known’ to the apostles? Note the answer given by one noted Bible commentator:
“The word name [in John 17] includes the attributes, or character of God. Jesus had made known his character, his law, his will, his plan of mercy. Or in other words, he had revealed God to them. The word name is often used to designate the person.”—Notes, Explanatory and Practical, on the Gospels by Albert Barnes (1846).
So, as Jesus ‘explained the Father’ by his own entire perfect life course on earth, he was really ‘making God’s name known.’ He demonstrated that he spoke with God’s full backing and authority. Jesus could therefore say: “He that has seen me has seen the Father also.” God’s “name” thus took on greater meaning to his early followers. Accordingly, an appreciation of it and the Personality that it stood for should be reflected in every aspect of the Christian’s life.—John 14:9; 1:18; 5:19, 30; Matt. 11:27. -
PSacramento
cabasilas,
I have been told and read that the people working on the NWT and on the Aid to bible understanding ( renamed insight into the scriptures) used commentaries such as the Barnes one you quoted, quite extensively.
I too use bible commentaries, typiclaly 3 or 4 depending on how "controversial" a passage may be, and I have yet to find one that, in the case of Romana 10;13, says that Paul was referring to God rather than jesus in that passage.
Which makes me wonder, if the translators of the NWT used bible commentaries, as they were suppose to, where did they get the view that "jehovah" shoudl be inserted when the context of the chapter doesn't call for it and no bible commentary states it as such?
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reniaa
All very nice speculations but none of them are scriptural, there is no scripture saying to no longer use Jehovah's name quite the contrary, And so Jehovah stands as God's name until such a scripture happens. Any speculation on Jesus name or actions somehow replacing this is just reading into the scriptures your own viewpoint, explanations and justification.
Reniaa
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PSacramento
Reniaa,
It seems that wether teh Divine name is or is not, or was or was not, or should or should not be in the NT is based on specualtion, though I do agree that, if the context permits it, it should be in the NT when OT passages are referenced.
Not sure what you mean about speculation in regards to Jesus's name ?
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isaacaustin
reniaa's rubbish:
All very nice speculations but none of them are scriptural, there is no scripture saying to no longer use Jehovah's name quite the contrary, And so Jehovah stands as God's name until such a scripture happens. Any speculation on Jesus name or actions somehow replacing this is just reading into the scriptures your own viewpoint, explanations and justification.
Reniaa
My reply: The only speculation here is to assert that the Divine name was removed from the NT. There is no scripture that says to use the Divine name- all NT verses say to call on the name of Jesus...they say that there is no other name by which we must be saved.
And, of course, you miss the point that name means the person behind those letters- which is something JWs do not know. They know the WT printed propaganda....they do not know the person behind the letters.
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Chalam
All very nice speculations but none of them are scriptural, there is no scripture saying to no longer use Jehovah's name quite the contrary
Rubbish! The name the NT says over and over again is of the highest importance is Jesus.
Why do you think that Jehovah isn't in there in the original Greek but instead is "Lord" and "God"?!
Do you actually know what Jesus means? "Jehovah Saves".
I am afraid there is a much better case for inserting "LORD" instead os "YHWH" in the OT than the NWT has for inserting "Jehovah" in the NT.
Stephen