I agree with Jehovah's Witnesses!

by UnDisfellowshipped 61 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  UnDisfellowshipped

  I Agree with Jehovah's Witnesses!

  (I bet Reniaa will be shocked to see this thread!)

  To Jehovah's Witnesses: I commend your zeal for God, your desire for accurate knowledge and truth of the Bible, your goals of drawing close to Jehovah, and following and obeying Christ's teachings, and your time spent studying the Bible. I commend you for trying to know and do God's will, and for trying to help save others.

  The goal of this thread is to establish some common ground with Jehovah's Witnesses. I want to show all Jehovah's Witnesses which of their beliefs I agree with. My hope is to elevate the discussion to a better level than the usual discussions which often end up with name-calling or personal attacks.

  Let me say up front, that I am a Christian, and I attempt to follow Christ everyday, and study God's Inspired Word each day, as well as pray to Him. I am definitely not a perfect man. I stumble many times in my walk with God. We all fall short of the glory of God. But my heart's desire (as well as my mind's) is to put God's will first in my life, to spend my life serving God and Christ in love, obeying their commands and principles out of appreciation and love. My goal is to become more Christlike every day of my life, with the help of The Holy Spirit.

  Also, let me make it clear that I truly do love Jehovah's Witnesses. I sincerely love all of you Witnesses of Jehovah who may be reading this. I care about you. God loves you. Jesus Christ died for you. He wants you to know the truth and to be saved. With that being said, I should tell you that there are some major teachings of the Watchtower Society that I disagree with. (I will post them and explain why I disagree with those teachings on another thread later -- right now we will focus on the teachings I agree with.)

  I Agree with Jehovah's Witnesses On These Teachings:

  1:) The Bible is God's Inspired, Infallible Word, both the Hebrew and Christian-Greek Scriptures.

  2:) God's Name is "YHWH" (Jehovah or Yahweh) and it is very proper to put that Name in the Hebrew Scriptures every time that it appears in the Hebrew manuscripts of the Bible.

  3:) There is only One True God, only One Almighty God, only One Creator -- Jehovah (Yahweh).

  4:) God is All-Powerful, All-Knowing, All-Seeing, Infinite, Holy, Loving, Just, Merciful yet Severe.

  5:) God sent His Only Son to die as a Sacrifice for our sins on a tree.

  6:) Jesus existed in Heaven with The Father before He came to earth, and He was known as The Logos (Word), and He was also the Personal Messenger (Special Angel) of Jehovah in the Hebrew Scriptures.

  7:) Christians should do their utmost to follow and obey Christ and His teachings everyday.

  8:) Christians should spend lots of time in personal Bible Study, Prayer, and Meditation on God, Jesus, and the Scriptures.

  9:) Christians should meet together to worship God, encourage and strengthen each other, and discuss and study the Bible.

  10:) Christians should always follow the Noble-Minded example of the Beroeans in Acts 17:11.

  11:) There will be a future Paradise New Earth and New Heavens as prophesied in Isaiah and other parts of the Bible.

  12:) Christ's Kingdom will rule the earth for 1,000 years, and He will have co-rulers (though I do not believe they are limited to 144,000).

  13:) One of the reasons why God allows suffering is to prove Satan a liar.

  14:) Christians should preach and teach the truth of the Bible and the Good News to people everywhere.

  15:) We should not be followers of men, but followers of Christ, the only Leader.

  16:) God did outlaw eating blood from an animal that had been killed by a human.

  17:) Christians should not put all their trust in human governments to solve all their problems.

  18:) Some Christian holidays do have a lot of pagan rituals, traditions, and customs added on to them.

  19:) The New Testament does teach that there should be leaders in the Congregations and that they should be organized, and that Christians should obey them as long as they are obedient to Christ.

  20:) Jesus is God's Son, His One-of-a-Kind Son. He is God the Father's Spokesman. All things were created through Him and for Him. He is Lord, Savior, Messiah, and High-Priest. God has appointed Jesus as The King of God's Kingdom. Jesus has the same Nature as God.

  21:) There will be a resurrection one day. The righteous will be raised to everlasting life, and the wicked to everlasting destruction.

  22:) Jesus will return one day to save His people and destroy the wicked in the Great Tribulation and Armageddon.

  23:) Christians are NOT under the Mosaic Law.

  24:) Christians are saved only by God and Christ's Undeserved Kindness through faith in the Ransom, not by any good works or acts of faith. (Watchtower publications have changed on this teaching over the years. I am going with the very latest publications from the last year)

  25:) Baptism does not save you. It is just an outward symbol of your inward dedication and repentance toward God and Jesus. (Again, Watchtower publications have changed on this teaching over the years. I am going with the very latest publications from the last year)

  26:) Your motives and heart condition are much more important to God than your actions or good works. God does not look at how many hours you put in Field Service, He looks at your heart. (Once again, Watchtower publications have changed on this teaching over the years. I am going with the very latest publications from the last year)

  27:) God and Jesus are the sole Judges, and only they will determine who to save and who to destroy. (Watchtower publications have changed on this teaching over the years. I am going with the very latest publications from the last year)

  28:) It is very, very important for Christians to have accurate knowledge and to know the truth. In fact, knowing the truth about God and Jesus' identity and nature means your everlasting life or death.

  29:) Christians should remember and celebrate the Lord's Evening Meal.

  30:) Christians should live by God's moral standards -- no fornication, adultery, murder, stealing, lying, idolatry, or even lusting and hating others.

  Now, hopefully, I have established some good starting points for discussions with Reniaa, Spike, and all other Jehovah's Witnesses.
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  jeeprube

  Let me say up front, that I am a Christian, and I attempt to follow Christ everyday, and study God's Inspired Word each day, as well as pray to Him.

  Pagan. Everybody knows JW's are the only true christians!
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  Awakened at Gilead

  I don't agree with any of it, except that I'm not under the Mosaic law either. I live in the United States, a secular country.
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  yknot

  I think it would be helpful if you reference said publications ....(just a suggestion)

  Question about number 28...... what about 'nature' is required?

  Beyond that.... Excellent post!!!!!!

  A good display of 'unity' (compared to the conformity that exists during hardliner eras)
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  trueblue

  I agree with all that too just that I can never get myself to agree that the scripture saying if you spoil the child means that you should beat on your kids.

  And I do not beleive that turn the other cheeck means to stand there and let someone hit you either.

  Any time you disagree with them it is like playing with a double edge sword. You get cut with either side you play with.
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  trueblue

  Excuse me I mean the scripture if you spare the rod you spoil the child
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  bluecanary

  trueblue, my understanding of that scripture is that it was an analogy to the way a shepherd uses a rod to guide sheep. He never hits them with it. That scripture was advocating gentle guidance. Which doesn't prevent people from taking it out of context.
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  Big Tex

  26:) Your motives and heart condition are much more important to God than your actions or good works. God does not look at how many hours you put in Field Service, He looks at your heart. (Once again, Watchtower publications have changed on this teaching over the years. I am going with the very latest publications from the last year)

  I was only a Witness from 1971-1989, but I never taught this. I wa taught one earns salvation through works, and works alone. And even then Jehovah may, or may not, let me live when he murders billions of people.

  I am curious though about your feelings towards Jehovah's Witnesses teachings, and actions, toward child abuse. I've read your posts on the old Lambs Roar board, so I think I have a pretty good idea, but if apologists such as those you mention, who refuse to address the issue in any way whatsoever, post on this thread, I would like this issue brought up. The attitude of Jehovah's Witnesses, and I've seen it time and again on this board by those who claim affiliation with the Witnesses, toward child abuse is not only unChristian but downright evil. Anyone, god himself included, who demands a child "prove" they were brutally assaulted by producing 2 eyewitnesses who stood by and did nothing to stop the assault is not only wrong but EVIL.

  Be well,

  Chris
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  Chalam

  Hi UD,

  Good thread!

  I agree with my JW friend on loads of stuff. I pretty much agree with the list you have written.

  I agree with the statements save these in part or not at all.

  4:) God is All-Powerful, All-Knowing, All-Seeing, Infinite, Holy, Loving, Just, Merciful yet Severe.

  I would say God is just, not "severe".

  5:) God sent His Only Son to die as a Sacrifice for our sins on a tree.

  I have to say that to me the cross is correct and a "torture stake" is destructive heresy. The greek for "cross" is stauros, there is no other word. Also, the evidence in the bible seems to point to a cross, not a pole. The WT want to keep people form salvation and the cross is what takes us there. Their "teaching" is another diversionary tactic to keep people from Jesus, just like their "teaching" on blood.

  1 Corinthians 1:18 (New International Version)

  18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

  6:) Jesus existed in Heaven with The Father before He came to earth, and He was known as The Logos (Word), and He was also the Personal Messenger (Special Angel) of Jehovah in the Hebrew Scriptures.

  I agree in principle but I am wary of non biblical terms such as "Personal Messenger". "Special Angel" I do not agree with. Jesus, was, is and never will be an angel. He is the only begotten Son of God.

  12:) Christ's Kingdom will rule the earth for 1,000 years, and He will have co-rulers (though I do not believe they are limited to 144,000).

  The Millennial reign I concur. However, the 144,000 are obviously 144,000 Jews, 12,000 from each tribe! Do the scriptures lie?!

  If you think it is figurative then surely 1000 years could be figurative? 1000 days? 1000 seconds?!

  13:) One of the reasons why God allows suffering is to prove Satan a liar.

  Do you have scripture for that? I am wary because I have heard JWs quote that in their "preaching". Next thing, we will be agreeing that Satan was thrown out of Heaven in 1914 which he wasn't!

  16:) God did outlaw eating blood from an animal that had been killed by a human.

  Yes and no. Paul said eat what you want, but do not cause your brother to stumble. Also to avoid food sacrificed to gods.

  Colossians 2:16-17 (New International Version)

  16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

  18:) Some Christian holidays do have a lot of pagan rituals, traditions, and customs added on to them.

  So what? The whole world is pagan! Should I not celebrate Christ's birthday because the date might not be accurate because some dude changed it to line up with St. Nicholas' celebrations? No, I celebrate the birth of Christ and especially His death every day, unlike JWs who ignore Christ command to "do this in remembrance of me".

  21:) There will be a resurrection one day. The righteous will be raised to everlasting life, and the wicked to everlasting destruction.

  Point blank the JWs believe the former but not the latter, even though they are described in the same verse in various places in the bible! Go figure... 22:) Jesus will return one day to save His people and destroy the wicked in the Great Tribulation and Armageddon. Yes Christ will return. However, the Armageddon statement smacks of heretical WT taught Annihilationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. A lot of soldiers will die at Armageddon, it is a huge battle where they try to "wipe Israel off the face of the map" is the truth, not the WT teaching.

  24:) Christians are saved only by God and Christ's Undeserved Kindness through faith in the Ransom, not by any good works or acts of faith. (Watchtower publications have changed on this teaching over the years. I am going with the very latest publications from the last year)

  I agree in principle but as James clearly says, faith without works is dead. We are saved by grace, a free gift least we should boast to do works Ephesians 2. So the faith comes first and works must follow. Who cares what the WT says? It is all heretical at its core.

  25:) Baptism does not save you. It is just an outward symbol of your inward dedication and repentance toward God and Jesus. (Again, Watchtower publications have changed on this teaching over the years. I am going with the very latest publications from the last year)

  I pretty much agree. However, it is a command of Christ, believe and be baptised and some might point to this verse

  Mark 16:16 (New International Version)

  16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

  For sure, if you are hit by a bus on the way to one's baptism the Lord will not judge you harshly.

  This is important on this matter too

  Matthew 10:32-33 (New International Version)

  32 "Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

  26:) Your motives and heart condition are much more important to God than your actions or good works. God does not look at how many hours you put in Field Service, He looks at your heart. (Once again, Watchtower publications have changed on this teaching over the years. I am going with the very latest publications from the last year)

  Once again, faith without works is dead. If we have the faith (the right motives and heart as you state) then we need the works and Jesus will judge both.

  27:) God and Jesus are the sole Judges, and only they will determine who to save and who to destroy. (Watchtower publications have changed on this teaching over the years. I am going with the very latest publications from the last year)

  Jesus is the judge.

  28:) It is very, very important for Christians to have accurate knowledge and to know the truth. In fact, knowing the truth about God and Jesus' identity and nature means your everlasting life or death.

  Faith in the truth is essential. The issue is who has "the truth"? From all the lies and deception the WT spews out, they clearly do not.

  29:) Christians should remember and celebrate the Lord's Evening Meal.

  Every "christian" JW with an "earthly hope" does not believe this. They ignore Christ's command and "do not partake".

  The thing is Jesus did not come to bring peace but division and there will always be division regarding Jesus.

  Luke 12:51-53 (New International Version)

  51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

  All the best, Stephen
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  Hi Big Tex,

  What I wrote about Jehovah looking at your heart and motives and not anything else was taken from a newer Watchtower from the last year or two. (I don't have it in front of me at the moment. I will post the reference when I locate it.)

  Yes, I agree with you absolutely, 110% that the Watchtower Society's "Two-Witness Rule" for Child Abuse (and the rest of their policy on abuse and rape) is morally evil, and is against everything Jesus stood for.

  Here are some Threads that I posted on this Site years ago about this Policy:

  Thread about the Watchtower Pedophile Policy: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/child-abuse/36778/1/Watchtowers-PEDOPHILE-POLICY
  
  Thread about the "Two-Witness Rule" for Child Abuse Cases: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/child-abuse/39906/1/TWO-WITNESS-RULE-Watchtower-QUOTES
  
  Thread about Matthew 18:15 being applied to Child Abuse Cases: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/child-abuse/39909/1/The-Matthew-18-15-Rule-for-Child-Abuse
  
  Thread with Questions everyone should ask the Elders or Bethel about the Child Abuse Policy: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/37330/1/QUESTIONS-FOR-THE-ELDERS
  
  Thread with Quotes from Watchtower Spokesman J.R. Brown about the Child Abuse Policy: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/36289/1/J-R-BROWN
  
  Thread with a list of Watchtower Quotes about Child Molestation: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/39602/1/Watchtower-Quotes-about-MOLESTATION
  
  Thread with a massive list of News Articles about JW Child Abuse and SilentLambs: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/child-abuse/39165/1/THE-silentlambs-ARCHIVE-Every-News-Article-Ever
  
  Thread with a list of Contradictions stated by J.R. Brown and other Spokesmen about the Child Abuse Policy: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/44563/1/J-R-Brown-Contradictions
  
  Thread about the Hypocrisy of the Watchtower Society for condemning the Catholic Church for having Child Abuse in their Organization: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/48389/1/Watchtower-Condemns-Catholics-for-Pedophile-Cover-Up
  Thread about the Watchtower Society's Rape Policy: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/35408/1/Watchtowers-RAPE-Policy