J.R. Brown Contradictions!

by UnDisfellowshipped 6 Replies latest jw friends

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Below are some Quotes that J.R. Brown, Mario Moreno, and other Watchtower Society Spokesmen stated to the Media.

    You can see the obvious contradictions.

    Here's the first one:

    Does the "Two-Witness Rule" mean that Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to go to the Police if there are not Two Eye-Witnesses?

    Quote from "Christianity Today" - February 2nd 2001:

    Jeff Tucker, one of the Mount Shasta Kingdom Hall elders, says there were not enough eye-witnesses to go to the police.
    -------------------------------

    COMPARE THAT WITH THE FOLLOWING STATEMENTS:

    Quote from "The Paducah Sun" (Kentucky) Newspaper - January 5th 2001:

    [J.R. Brown, Spokesman for Watchtower Society, speaking] "...we do not prohibit or discourage the victim or the victim's parents from reporting child abuse to the authorities even if the alleged perpetrator is one of Jehovah's Witnesses."
    -------------------------------

    Quotes from "Louisville Courier-Journal" Newspaper - January 4th 2001 [Mario Moreno is a Spokesman for the Watchtower Society]:

    Victims and their parents are free, Moreno said, to seek help from police or therapists and should not blame the church if they choose not to do so.

    "Parents are encouraged to do whatever they need to do to protect their child," said Moreno.

    Church attorney Moreno said church members know they can go to the authorities on a matter of abuse. "They haven't committed a sin by turning in a Jehovah's Witness to the authorities," he said. "It's a very personal decision."

    Church policy neither encourages nor discourages members to report suspected or admitted sexual abuse to police, Moreno said.

    Church lawyer Moreno said it would be "ridiculous" for any elder to make such a threat, and if one did, it would contradict church policy.

    "That's not scriptural," he said. "We teach the Scriptures. The Scriptures don't say, 'If you file criminal charges against an abuser you're going to have eternal damnation.' The one in danger of eternal damnation is the abuser."
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    *********************************************************

    What about the Elders' Investigation into a molestation accusation?

    Quote from "The Paducah Sun" (Kentucky) Newspaper - January 28th 2001:

    Moreno agrees with Bowen's claim that no investigation is initiated in the church if there is only one witness and the accused denies the charge, but he said elders have the responsibility to watch the accused more closely. He added that elders sometimes advise the accused to not put himself or herself in suspicious situations.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    COMPARE THAT TO THIS:

    Jehovah's Witnesses Office of Public Information

    Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Protection

    (This Statement was Posted on the Official Watchtower Society Media Website at http://www.jw-media.org right around the same time Dateline aired)

    When any one of Jehovah's Witnesses is accused of an act of child abuse, the local congregation elders are expected to investigate. Two elders meet separately with the accused and the accuser to see what each says on the matter. If the accused denies the charge, the two elders may arrange for him and the victim to restate their position in each other's presence, with elders also there. If during that meeting the accused still denies the charges and there are no others who can substantiate them, the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    *************************************************************

    What about Warning other People about the Molester?

    Quote from "The Paducah Sun" Newspaper - January 28th 2001:

    He [Mario Moreno] also said that when members are disfellowshipped, the congregation is told but no reason is given in order to protect confidentiality. When asked if the parents of the victim would be allowed to tell fellow congregates why a member is disfellowshipped, Moreno replied, "That would be their choice. We don't tell them that, but it would be their choice. Is that encouraged? No."
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    COMPARE THAT WITH THIS:

    Insight Book Volume 1 (1988), Page 990:

    Gossip, Slander

    Gossip is talk that reveals something about the doings and the affairs of other persons. It may be someones faults and mistakes that the gossiper is talking about.

    But even if the things said are true, the gossiper is in the wrong and reveals lack of love.

    The proverb says: "The one covering over transgression is seeking love, and he that keeps talking about a matter is separating those familiar with one another."Pr 17:9.
    Sometimes matters are confidential, but the slanderer delights in revealing them to others who have no right to know. (Pr 11:13) The slanderer gets pleasure in revealing things that cause sensation. The one listening to slander is also wrong and is damaging himself. (Pr 20:19; 26:22) A person may be turned away from his friends because of some defamatory remark about them made by a slanderer, and enmities and divisions may develop.Pr 16:28.

    The Scriptures foretell that the notable presence of slanderers would be one of the marks of "the last days." (2Ti 3:1-3) Such persons, men or women, if present among Gods people, are to be reproved and corrected by responsible ones in the Christian congregation.

    ALSO COMPARE TO THIS:

    The Watchtower August 15th 1997 Issue, Pages 27-28:

    Why Report What Is Bad?

    At least two witnesses are required to establish a charge of wrongdoing. (John 8:17; Hebrews 10:2) If the person denies the charge and your testimony is the only one, the matter will be left in Jehovah's hands. (1 Timothy 5:19, 24, 25) This is done in the knowledge that all things are openly exposed to Jehovah and that if the person is guilty, eventually his sins will catch up with him. Hebrews ; Numbers 32:23.

    But suppose the person does deny the charge and you are the only witness against him. Could you now be open to a countercharge of slander? No, not unless you have gossiped to those not involved in the matter. It is not slanderous to report conditions affecting a congregation to those having authority and responsibility to oversee and correct matters. It is, in fact, in line with our desire always to do what is correct and loyal. -Compare Luke 1:74, 75

    ALSO COMPARE TO THIS:

    Quote from "The Watchtower" November 1st 1995 Issue, Pages 28-29:

    If the accusation is denied, the elders should explain to the accuser that nothing more can be done in a judicial way.

    And the congregation will continue to view the one accused as an innocent person.

    The Bible says that there must be two or three witnesses before judicial action can be taken. (2 Cor.13:1; 1 Tim. 5:19)

    Even if more than one person remembers abuse by the individual, the nature of these recalls is just too uncertain to base judicial decisions on them without other supporting evidence.

    This does not mean that such memories are viewed as false (or that they are viewed as true).

    But Bible principles must be followed in establishing a matter judicially.
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    *************************************************************

    What about Accused Molesters' Status inside the Congregation?

    Quote from J.R. Brown in "The Washington Post" Newspaper May 11th 2002:

    People in the Organization who are accused of sex abuse are subject to a Hearing... They are automatically removed from leadership positions and can't go door-to-door without other members' being present.
    ---------------------

    Quote from "The Tennessean/Nashville" Newspaper May 11th 2002:

    People in the Organization who are accused of sex abuse are subject to a Hearing like the one Barbara Anderson attended yesterday, [J.R.] Brown said.

    They are automatically removed from leadership positions and can't go door-to-door without other members' being present.
    ---------------------

    Quote from J.R. Brown in the "Paducah Sun" Newspaper on January 5th, 2001:

    "A known child molester does not qualify for appointment as a church Elder or for any other position of responsibility in any congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses."
    -----------------------

    Quote from the Danish Newspaper "Kristeligt Dagblad" October 18, 2001:

    "The Witnesses can often avoid being Disfellowhipped if they quickly show repentance, but according to Erik Joergensen [Head of Information of the Jehovah's Witnesses in Denmark], this will not be the case if they have committed sexual abuse and murder."
    ----------------------------------------------

    Quote from the Official Watchtower Media Website about their Pedophile Policy:

    Even if he [the child molester] is repentant is cut to the heart and is thus resolutely determined to avoid such conduct in the future what was stated in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower applies. The article said: "For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer [full-time missionary of Jehovah's Witnesses] or serve in any other special, full-time service." He would not qualify Scripturally. (1 Timothy 3:2, 7-10)

    We take such action because we are concerned with maintaining Bible standards and protecting our children. Everyone in our organization is expected to meet the same requirements, namely, to be clean physically, mentally, morally, and spiritually.2 Corinthians 7:1; Ephesians 4:17-19; 1 Thessalonians 2:4.

    In a few instances, individuals guilty of an act of child abuse have been appointed to positions within the congregation if their conduct has been otherwise exemplary for decades.

    All the factors are considered carefully.
    ----------------------------------

    Quote from the March 14th 1997 Official Watchtower Society Letter that was Sent (from Bethel) to All Bodies of Elders, Page 2, Paragraph 5, states:

    It may be possible that some who were guilty of child molestation were or are now serving as elders, ministerial servants, or regular or special pioneers. Others may have been guilty of child molestation before they were baptized. The bodies of elders should not query individuals. However, the body of elders should discuss this matter and give the Society a report on anyone who is currently serving or who formerly served in a Society-appointed position in your congregation who is known to have been guilty of child molestation in the past.

    Paragraph 6 continues at the end: this information is not to be made available to those not involved.
    -----------------------------

    Quote from the June 1st 2001 Official Watchtower Society Letter that was Sent (from Bethel) to All Bodies of Elders:

    "The elders may have written to the branch office and given full details about a former child abuser who is currently serving as an elder or ministerial servant. In such a case, if the branch office has decided that he can be appointed or continue serving in a position of trust because the sin occurred many years ago and because he has lived an exemplary life since then, his name should not appear on the List, nor is it necessary to pass on information about the brothers past sin if he moves to another congregation unless contrary instructions have been given by the branch. If therefore, such an appointed man moves to another congregation a letter confirming the move should be sent, addressed to the Societys Legal Department."

    "There are, however, many other situations that are connected with the abuse of a child. For example, there may be just one eyewitness, and the brother denies the allegation. (Deuteronomy 19:15; John 8:17) In these and similar cases no entry will be made on the Child Protection List. Rather, information should be kept in a sealed envelope in the congregations confidential file as described below."
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    Quote from the January 1st 1997 Watchtower:

    "Moreover, the man has revealed a serious weakness that henceforth will have to be taken into account. If he seems to be repentant, he will be encouraged to make spiritual progress, share in the field service"

    Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 15 January 2003 2:28:50

    Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 15 January 2003 2:58:39

    Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 15 January 2003 3:0:8

  • greven
    greven

    You sure put a lot of effort in this one!

    Thanx for exposing JR again for what he really is... a lying b*st*rd. It would be nice if the media confronted him with such contradictions. I would sure like to see him weasel himself out of that one!

    Greven.

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Mario Marino is curiously absent from the WTS these days.

    He just didn't lie so gud, I guess. Sorrry, Mario. You just didn't lie gud enough. But take heart. Jehovah has lovingly provided J.R. Brown to take over the lies, and he is so SWEET with his lies!. Jehovah is SURELY proud of Brother Brown's lies. He's GOOD at them! Jehovah must LOVE that silver-tongued lying devil that he is.

    Farkel, who knows Englishman will mess up this perfectly good post, CLASS, just because I happened to say it the way it is, without much class, CLASS

    Don't care! Buddies are more important than my drivel!

    Farkel

  • Mutz
    Mutz

    Well said that man!

    Maybe you were a little soft on J.R.Brown. though? :)

  • Gizmo
    Gizmo

    Farkel,

    "Jehovah has lovingly provided J.R. Brown"...."he is so SWEET"..."Jehovah is SURELY proud"..."He's GOOD"..."Jehovah must LOVE"'

    Anyone would think you Loved him Farkel

    Just taking the watchtowers ... liberty to quote Farkel

  • avengers
    avengers
    Mario Marino is curiously absent from the WTS these days

    Hey Fark: How do you know he's curiously absent these days? Do you have access to secret info?

    Please elaborate.

    Andy of the that shark will never swallow me class.

  • Holey_Cheeses*King_of_the juice.
    Holey_Cheeses*King_of_the juice.

    Don't know much about either Brown or Marino, but if their actions are such that they rankle the ire of farkel, well, maybe, they are just as he described so eloquently.

    I feel sure Englishman would not be so bold as to tamper with your remarks. Some advice - forget ambiguity - be more forthright with your much quoted opinions. I'd like to see the WT print a question from readers from farkel

    cheeses, who sees much good in farkel.

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