by dutchstef 62 Replies latest watchtower bible
So you rather that God just butt in and stop every evil thing that happens on this planet?
As I recall, he promised to do just that but has failed to do so. I'm not surprised. In any event, a death sentence for eating a piece of fruit is a poor example of punishment fitting a crime. Extending this sentence to all offspring is not something that you could call divine justice. It seems more demonic to me.
W
ATJ
Deputy Dog, is me being scared for my life the way that a loving god chooses to attract worshipers and be a god of love?
I wish he would make up his mind. But don't tell me he is a god of love while I am under threat of death if I don't worship him.
Like you and I already discussed, we were already dead in our sin (free will if you like). You're not under threat, you're dead. The loving part is that He saves some. He doesn't "attract" worshipers, He calls them.
dutchstef
That prooves that god created us as slaves!!!
I agree. But, He redeems us as His children.
And that brings us back to the other question, why then did he give us free will, if we Can't get killed for using it....(Sometimes translating dutch to english in my mind goes wrong)
I believe we gain much more in Christ, than we lost in the garden.
I don't consider myself Evil...
This is the problem. Adam proved we are all evil by nature, when he fell.
Yiz
So it's ok to molest a child? It's ok to rob someone and kill them? So no one should have to answer for their actions?
Of course not. God has created evil (defined it). Men love it, rather than God. The problem is we don't see how evil we really are.
God is good and he is against evil.
I believe if God destroyed evil rather than punish it, nothing (or nobody) would be left. The miracle (love) is that He forgives.
So we should ignore evil and let them get away with it all and just call it normal?
Have you been punished for all your sin? I haven't. I come to God as a beggar asking for forgiveness, hoping to find His grace.
Sighs, the whole thing sounds of "Hey cop! Why aren't ya doing yer job? I'm paying ya to lay the smack down on crime, man!"
Well what about you? Got a drug dealer moved into your neighborhood selling drugs to your kids? What YOU gonna do about? Expect some cop to do his job? You can't expect every cop to be everywhere (but you would argue, well God can!!!) all the time. Why not YOU take a baseball bat, kick the door down and beat the hell out of him and tell him to take his crap and get out! Oh wait, a cop will arrest you for taking the law into your hands and the drug dealer will sue you into financial oblivion.
When something goes wrong, you expect someone else to deal with it and not roll up your sleeves and do something about it yourself.
If the world was like that from the get go, there would be no crime and the Holocaust would have never happened.
The problem is that too many don't give a damn, that makes it difficult for all of us to band together and make a stand against evil.
People are lazy and expect someone else to do the dirty work of cleaning up evil.
Yiz
YIZ
If you're talking to me, I've been in law enforcement for 17 years. Am I missing something?
I do believe that God give us free will and he does want us to love him. Jesus said love your God with your whole heart, your whole mind, and your whole soul. second to love your nieghbor as yourself, he also stated that is where the rest of the commandmets hang. Mathew 22, 37-40
Do I beleive man or even a Jw's should judge? no. only the creater has that right.
Do I beleive that God punishes people? no. God has made rules and he is a just God and follows his own rule. ( God is love 1 John 4;8 )
God did warn Adam and Eve that if they eat from that tree then they will positively die. Flat out he told them. Just as he tries to tell us now.
I can-t find the scripture right now, the one that says God does not test that he can not be tested so he doesn't test anyone.
Satin he challanged God as well as man, Satin told God that he coud turn all man against him. Satin told good skin in behalf of skin man will curse you to your very face. Don't worry so much my friend God would not allow us to be tested by satin if he did not think we could pass the test.
God could have destroyed Satin right then but what would that prove? That he is the most powerful or just a bully? he does not have to prove that he is the most powerful?
Why does he do it that way? I do not know I guess if he wants to he can, he was the one that created us and he should know what is best for us.and that we should trust God that he will do the right thing and everyting wil come out for the best in the end.
( Just supposing that we are made of clay and God is a potter) and the potter is at the potters wheel building something made of clay and the clay for some reason falls down. Would you not think the potter would or could lift the clay back up?
God gave us free will, in the case of Adam and Eve, he gave them one little tiny rule, they broke it.
Did God know they were going to?
Ah yes, the question on ominsience (SP?), the question of all knowing, does God know all?
Yes, he does, he knows that if we make choice A, it will lead to B and if we make choice C it will lead to D, he "doesn't know" which choice we will make because he has given us free will to make those choices, though he knows the results of all the choices we make.
As for Satan, we all have our roles to play.
using that free will, Adam and Eve could have eaten the fruit from the Tree of Life and would live forever - so God had to get them out of the garden before they did ==doesnt that cause anyone to question why? Since God was ALmighty and had already pronounced them to die because of their disobedience, needed to keep them from that tree... they ate a fruit to die, and could eat another to live forever???
It falls into the bigger category of God's prerogative. As creator/sustainer/
whatever, it's all His, so it's fair game for Him to give people whatever length
or quality of life. Whatever battle or misfortune people die from in the Bible,
if they hadn't died that way, God would have had them die eventually anyway. We
don't all live in fair circumstances forever, so He's not all-beneficent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegorical_interpretations_of_Genesis
As in Job, you can think life stinks for the bad in it or, like Job, see those
things but still be glad for the shot at life and to find whatever love and good
in it. You can look at the same two choices and not believe in God or, like
Job, believe in God. The bad things aren't a make or break point about it.
They might be for an all-beneficent God concept, but that isn't the God of the
Bible or even possible.
You could not want to believe in a God that creates people who are able to be
bad and has them punish bad behavior, or still believe in Him likewise. One
sermon I remember said something like the love from people wouldn't count for as
much if everybody was programmed to give it like robots--that God didn't figure
it meant as much unless it was freely given, and He knew the bad would come with
the good.
One day in the Garden of Eden, Eve calls out to God, " Lord I have a problem! "
" What's the matter Eve? "
" Lord, I know you have created me and have provided me with this beautiful garden and all of these wonderful animals, and that hilarious comedy snake, but I am just not happy. "
" Why is that Eve? " came a reply from above.
" Lord, I am lonely. And I am sick of eating apples. "
" Well, Eve, in that case, I have a solution. I shall create a man for you. "
" What's a 'man', Lord? "
" This man will be a flawed creature, with aggressive tendencies, an enormous ego and an inability to empathize or listen to you properly. All in all, he will give you a hard time. But he will be bigger and faster and more muscular than you. He'll be really good at fighting and kicking a ball about and chasing fleet-footed ruminants. "
" Sounds great, " says Eve with an ironically raised eyebrow.
" But, you can only have him on one condition. "
" What's that Lord? "
" You will have to let him belaive that I made him first. "
Almighty refers to Jehovah's power, his energy. Without it none of his creations (whether the invisible aspects of the universe or the visible) would exist. That's one point.
Free will is something that Jehovah has, as well as something we as humans have been the capacity for also.
Jehovah said that he didn't want Adam [or any other human, by extension] to eat from the one-of-a-kind forbidden fruit tree (not an apple tree, of which there are many), he said what the punishment would be.
When Eve and Adam (as they became known) ate, Jehovah followed through as a proper parent ought and did what he said he would do. Now it turned out that his defintion of a day in this case was "within 1000 years" in a physical sense, but Jehovah's spiritual relationship ended with them that day, even though Eve continued to delude herself that she still had a relationship with him. No she didn't, she had received a judgment from Jehovah which apparently could not be appealed. We can know that Jehovah's relationship ended with Eve on the very day that she disobeyed, because there are no further conversations recorded between Jehovah and Eve (or Adam). Jehovah was no longer dealing with either of them.
