That's pretty 'dodgy' in it's own right...
Only to those too proud to believe it.
Those who accept the trinity could say the same of those of who don't accept it.
Jesus.....God or God's son?
by digderidoo 280 Replies latest watchtower bible
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undercover
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snowbird
I have no quarrel with Trinitarians or those who refuse to believe the Virgin Birth, but I will state that if as much information was given to support the Trinity as the Virgin Birth, you and I wouldn't be having this discussion.
All things have been delivered to the Son by the Father. All things.
It makes me very happy that I don't have to sort anything out or decide who's right or wrong.
Hallelujah! I say.
Sylvia
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isaacaustin
Correct...except you misunderstand the term son as having a deeper meaning of identity. Son of Man and Son of God.
So you do not truly believe Jehovah Reniaa. Why?
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civicsi00
Myself, after coming out of the Watchtower nightmare, I don't subscribe to everything so easily anymore.
I can only speak about my own personal experience, so what follows is my own understanding...
After re-reading most of the Bible, especially the New Testament, I have come to the conclusion that Jesus is the YHWH of the OT. I agree with Snowbird when she quotes John 8:58 (there are various other texts as well). Another text that clinched it for me was Amos 4:10, 11, and here is why: In verse 10 it is understood that YHWH is speaking. Then as you continue reading verse 11, the Bible reads "I [YHWH] overthrew some of you as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah." In this one simple verse, two people are identified so easily. It makes perfect sense why Jesus would call God his FATHER, and himself the SON. God is a FAMILY. I can understand perfectly now that they are both God (because YHWH is identified as GOD also in hundreds of other verses).
Just my opinion...
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Chalam
Hi dd,
So my questions is to those here who believe Jesus is God is why do you believe this?
John 1:1 (New International Version)
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.Matthew 1:23 (New International Version)
23 "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" —which means, "God with us."
John 20:28 (New International Version)
28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Isaiah 43:10 (New International Version)
10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD,
"and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.Do you believe that Jesus was the manifestation of God?
Hebrews 1:3 (New International Version)
3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.
Philippians 2:5-6 (New International Version)
5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,2 Corinthians 4:4 (New International Version)
4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Colossians 1:15 (New International Version)
The Supremacy of Christ
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.Or do you see him as divine because he was sent from God or a part of God?
John 10:30 (New International Version)
30 I and the Father are one."
John 5:22-24 (New International Version)
22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
All the best,
Stephen
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sacolton
Hebrews 1:7-8
In speaking of the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire."
But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
Why doubt the very words of the FATHER?
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reniaa
Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.John 4:23
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.Proverbs 8:22-25 (New International Version)
22 "YHWH brought me forth as the first of his works, [a] , [b]
before his deeds of old;23 I was appointed [c] from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,Reniaa
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isaacaustin
Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.My reply: Of course...they are one so their will is one, in perfect unity. Read John 5.
John 4:23
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.My reply: Correct again. And how does one wirship the Fathe rin spirit and truth. Read John 5- by honoring the Son exactly as the Father.
Reniaa: these proverbs below are speaking of wisdom...not Jesus. If wisdom is Jesus who is prudence? And other qualities are described as living together.
Proverbs 8:22-25 (New International Version)
22 "YHWH brought me forth as the first of his works, [a] , [b]
before his deeds of old;23 I was appointed [c] from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,Reniaa
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possible-san
A certain Japanese minister states like this.
"The son of human is a human. The son of a panda is a panda. Then, the son of God is God, isn't it?"
Probably, "God is a FAMILY" may be such meaning.
But it does not mean "Jesus is Jehovah."
Although I am having explained repeatedly, in the orthodox Trinity doctrine, Jesus is NOT Jehovah (the Father).
And this is not my opinion. (I am not a Trinitarian.)
It is the opinion of the major churches in Japan.But, of course, there are also many people who believe "Jesus is Jehovah."
But even if that is right, it does not mean "Jesus is the Father."