Questioning me as an apostate

by God_Delusion 69 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • flipper

    O.K. I've stayed silent long enough. I think some here are allowing once again our alleged " JW expert " Reniaa to hi-jack the real meaning of God_Delusions thread here. This is a newbie on the board who is being condemned and assaulted in his views by elders in a " mind control cult" . The title of the thread " Questioning me as an Apostate " indicates the real issue at stake here. Who gives a rats behind whether or not there was a flood ? It has no bearing on the mind control tactics that Jehovah's Witnesses use to control people !

    Notice God_Delusion's statement towards the end of his thread - " In the end , I was told that if I MAKE MY DOUBTS PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE , a judicial could be arranged as it is a very serious sin to SPEAK OF AND QUESTION THE GB. " THAT is what's at stake here ! God_Delusion's freedom and rights to speak openly about his doubts is being stripped from him by verbal threats of punishment and possibly being cut off from the witness cult and his family !

    Notice Steve Hassan's point on " Information Control" that leaders of cults like the witnesses use to control their members. THIS is being done in a threatening tone to God_Delusion which he needs to be made aware of. I quote from pg. 49 " The control of information also includes the supervision of members ' interactions with all other people. People are expected to spy on one another ( Delusion's parents ) and report improper activities or comments , such as CRITICSM OF THE LEADER, DOCTRINE, OR ORGANIZATION. " It states, " This information - is often used against people to MANIPULATE THEM. "

    THAT is what's happening to God_Delusion ! The elders are attempting to control , limit, and manipulate his access to ANY information which may help him think freely and openly. It is what cults do to control people- including Jehovah's Witnesses. And that is the point of this thread we should be sharing with God_DElUSION. I thionk THAT"S what he's concerned about - not whether there was a freaking flood or not. Just my take

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    I think there is enough evidence of a racial memory with all the various flood accounts which are surprisingly similar, involving a person and animals reseeding planet for this to be an actual true memory. But people who don't want to believe in the flood will ignore this evidence looking for alternate explanations.

    While the presence of deluge myths in ancient cultures gives us reason to believe that the source may be rooted in a historical event, it gives no indication as to what the actual details of that event where let alone provide adequite evidence that a divine power was involved.

    Localized flooding, a tsunami, or other factors could well have been the source. The similarities in these stories when compared to the Bilblical account is often overrated by people hoping to validate the bible (the Watchtower had a chart in one of its books where it was pretty liberal in checking off similarities). Flooding is something that has and allways will continue to happen. Is it any surprise that localized agrarian cultures had myths surrounding a life altering event like this?

    And then there is the Jewish cosmology in which Genesis was written.

    I remember the first time I began to think about Bibles stories being myths instead of historical events. I actually got a little sad. I felt somewhat emotionally connected to these characters (fundamentalist JW frame of mind!) and beleving that they did not exisist hurt.

    And yet that is the power of literature. It does not matter if something you are reading actually occurs or not. What matters is what you take away from it. Nobody reads the Lord of the Rings and gets sad because Frodo isn't a real person (ok, a few strange people do!).

    It's about what the characters and stories mean to you and your own identity.

  • The Almighty Homer
    The Almighty Homer

    Thanks Flipper for straighting out things once again, Reniaa's hijacking tactics are getting appalling annoying.

  • flipper

    Thanks- Almighty Homer- I just want people to understand what the real issue here is to be able to assist God_Delusion with the control of the elders and understand what he is experiencing - not whether there was a flood or not . The flood is a non-issue here


    Your never going to be able to keep Reniaa on Topic......All we can do is get a thread back on topic..And..She`ll be back to screw it up.................LOL!!...OUTLAW

  • mindmelda

    I always hated the insinuation by the WTS that to believe in the Bible you had to be some sort of literal minded idiot that had to prove every bit of it was an actual occurance or historical event.

    My kids used to ask me things like "Is the story of Noah true?" And I'd ask them what they thought, because I really wanted to know.

    One day, my husband interrupted with the most amazing answer. He said, simply. "It doesn't matter if it's true or not. What matters is the lessons it teaches. That's the main value of any story."

    He summed up in a few simple words the most sensible view. The stories could be true if you believe in God making a lot of miracles for these people. Miracles happen when God seems to alter the laws of nature or use them in an unusual way. Someone once pointed out to me that a blessing is when God works using the normal and usual channels of nature, a miracle is something more.

    But, even if every miracle in the Bible is total BS, they teach important lessons, make you think, and it turns out that humans learn and retain best through story telling. These stories survived simply because they WERE stories. That is the nature of lore.

    We learn valuable lessons through these stories, and modern day lore has the same effect. We love high fantasy and science fiction not because it's the literal truth, but because of what it makes us feel and how it makes us think and the moral lessons learned through the story telling.

    So, does it matter if Noah and his Ark are true? No, not in the sense of the value it contains. If it NEEDS to be literally true for you, then ask yourself, where is the need for faith?

    One of the most discouraging things I learned about Witnesses is they walk by sight, not by faith. It's a religion of literalism and works, and both of those kill faith. In their literalism they miss the greater truths of the book they claim to believe is the Word of God. Putting faith that the stories are literally true is missing their point. Putting faith in and finding the wisdom that the lessons about man and God they teach IS the point.

  • Mary

    Hi God_Delusion and welcome to the board.

    I did a project up last Fall that outlines the problems with alot of the Society's teachings. The subjects I touch on are: Smoking, The Faithful and Discreet Slave, False Prophecy, 1914, Disfellowshipping, New Light, etc.

    If you would like a copy (there's no charge), just send me a PM and I can send you either a hard copy or one by email attachement.



  • Scarred for life
    Scarred for life

    Welcome ,God_Delusion, to the board. Keep posting. We want to hear from you. I'm sorry that your thread got hijacked.

    Thanks, Flipper, for attempting to get this thread back on subject.

    I do not read Reniaa's posts because they are pointless. If everyone else would do the same and ignore her she would go away and not keep taking over legitimate threads by people that are hurting and need our help.

  • leavingwt

    Amen, Flipper.

  • BonaFide

    Thanks Flipper. God_Delusion, ignore Renaii, all she wants is attention. Ignore her and her craziness and focus on your situation.

    Be careful whatever you decide. The elders that are dealing with your case are nervous too, they have to keep up appearances, so don't expect to convince anyone of anything. Don't get emotional during the meeting, and make sure its your decision on whether to be kicked out or not. You can do that by phrasing things a certain way.


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