Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject... (page 33)

UnDisfellowshipped

Vinny,

When we all stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ, the deciding issue will be "Who do you say that I am?" along with whether you put faith in His Sacrifice alone to cover your sins.

John 3:16-18 (ESV): "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

John 3:36 (ESV): Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Vinny

If the bible is true ... and a Christian man believes in the son, and follows the son's steps closely, as well as acknowledges the son as being responsible for their own existence; but also believes the son is separate from the father and subject to the Father (1 Cor 15:28) from his own reading of the bible;... then I cannot believe God would destroy such an individual for this single belief alone.

Sure, if one is also a hypocrite, practicer of sin or more, I would understand being judged adversely. But not based SOLELY on a belief that Jesus is subject to and separate from the Father based on their own reading of the scriptures.

You see this is the problem with religion and Christianity overall.

As I stated back on page 12:

You see, these are the very kinds of things that give religion a bad rap.

There are arguments (among all Christian faiths and individual Christians against other christians all over the world) about these kinds of things (trinity, holy spirit, born again, rapture, tithing, sin, heaven, hell) and so much more.

It turns people OFF.

And then you have all the 1.4 Billion Muslims that will be destroyed if they do not become Christian.

Only the Muslims think that if all the Christians do not become Muslim, then they will be destroyed.

And then we have the Mormons, who claim they alone are the true church. (Trust me, I have the emails and spoken to many).

And then we have the Jews thinking they are still God's chosen people today.

But then again we have all the Jehovah's Witnesses who think all of the above; Muslims, Mormons, Jews and even other Christians along with Buddhists, Hindus and more are all going to get THE AXE. And only they get to make it.

You see folks this is exactly why many people say forget religion.

And I can understand.

Vinny

And I see you skipped this post entirely.

Undisfellowshipped writes: "Who are you to judge what a "good name" or "bad name" for Christianity is, especially if you deny or ignore what the New Testament itself says?"

**** When Muslims fight/argue/bicker among Muslims, do find such conflicts appealing for the Muslim faith?

When sincere, professed Christians fight/argue/bicker among themselves, do you think such conflicts are appealing to a non-Christian or a potential Christian?

What do you think is happening on this thread?

Vinny

UnDisfellowshipped

Vinny,

I can understand what you're saying, and where you're coming from. I am not the Judge. Jesus is the Judge. Thank God for that.

Jesus is the exact same Person today that He was 2,000 years ago as described in the Gospels. So, if you read about Him and His teachings in the Gospels, you can find out how to be saved, and find out what kind of Person He is, and who He will save and who He will not save.

It is up to Jesus alone to determine who He saves. I am not going to try to limit Him. I know God wants all to be saved, and none to be lost.

And, as C.S. Lewis said, we do not know how Jesus will deal with those who have never heard about Him or the Gospel, but we do know that Jesus is absolutely 100% Just and Fair in everything He does.

But, again, I do believe it is proper to show everyone what Jesus said in the Bible about being saved or destroyed.

UnDisfellowshipped

Vinny,

You said:

**** When Muslims fight/argue/bicker among Muslims, do find such conflicts appealing for the Muslim faith?
When sincere, professed Christians fight/argue/bicker among themselves, do you think such conflicts are appealing to a non-Christian or a potential Christian?
What do you think is happening on this thread?

Vinny, I am very, very passionate about finding and knowing the truth (especially after being lied to and deceived by false teachings for so many years), and I find it very appealing to see others who have a passion for knowing the truth.

There is a right way and a wrong way to search for the truth. Christians should be passionate, but not hateful or rude or arrogant.

I haven't been able to read every post on this thread yet, but I am against anyone who is hateful, rude, or arrogant, whether Trinitarian or Unitarian.

And I do not agree with the way that some people have treated Reniaa here. She has just as much of a right to post here as anyone else, as long as she obeys the Forum's Rules.

Vinny

You see this is a more balanced viewpoint from you in your last two posts. But sadly, this thread is lacking in just that. There are just so many dogmatic statements and beliefs on this thread and most like it in other locations from my experience.

Sometimes I wonder, if the bible is true, if these kinds of responses is exactly what God is looking to discover.

Vinny

My experiences with my own search for God, spirituality and religion continue to take me in a different direction at times. I am certain God exists. I've debated for days, weeks and even months at a time in the past with atheists here and in other places. I just cannot subscribe to their arguments. In fact I find them extremely weak and unconvincing.

But I am also having difficulty believing that Christianity itself is the one true faith today. It could be. I am still very open. Today, I still pray and worship through the Christian belief system because I am the most comfortable and familiar with it. But I also see powerfully convincing testimony and evidence that God, whoever He truly is, is also with many Muslim people today; with peace loving Buddhists, with Hindus, Mormons, some Seventh Day Adventists, Catholics, Evangelicals, Born Agains, Jews, Hare Krishnas and many MANY others and yes including some Jehovah's Witnesses.

How can anybody PROVE that these sincere people, believing with all their hearts at times, that God's hand is not also in their lives and walking with them too?

Nobody has yet to be able to disprove such testimony to me on a universal basis. Not even close.

I am less dogmatic now than I have ever been.

And I am finding that this is in actuality a great place to be...

UnDisfellowshipped

Vinny,

Thank you and I appreciate what you have written. I apologize if I sounded too dogmatic or harsh or rude earlier. Sometimes I get carried away by my passion for the truth.

I don't want to judge anyone. Only Jesus will determine who gets saved. All I can do is point people toward the One who is Truth.

I commend you for seeking the truth. And Jesus did promise that you would know the truth and the truth would set you free if you keep on seeking, keep on knocking, the door will be opened.

God and Jesus do love you and they want you to be saved, just like They want all people to be saved.

God bless you Vinny!

mraimondi

undisfellowshipped - it sounds like you are a guitarist studying jazz when you don't even know what a fret is.

Vinny

Undisfellowshipped writes: "Thank you and I appreciate what you have written. I apologize if I sounded too dogmatic or harsh or rude earlier. Sometimes I get carried away by my passion for the truth."

**** No problems, I do understand. One of the best things I have taken away from my 18 years with the Jehovah's Witnesses faith, is how can anybody claim any religion is true today for a complete certainty?

A couple months ago two Mormons came by to my home preaching their own message. I was all up for their visit and easily refuted their notion that I must be a Mormon to be saved. That was very easy. But, once we got that cleared out of the way, I was very comfortable allowing them to be Mormons. There was no burning desire on my part to tell them they were in some kind of false religious cult. In fact, who am I to say God is not with them? He very well may be. They sure think He is, I can tell you that for a certainty.

For me, this is a good place to be.

Don't get me wrong, I am still examining, searching and thinking deeply and probably far too often about these things. (We are in a rough economy and I do need to get more things done). I've been reading CS Lewis, Mere Christianity, recently as well.

But the more I see things, with clear and unbiased eyes, the more I am seeing a Transcendent God that rises above any single religious faith.

Thanks for the interchange.

Best,

Vinny

Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

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