Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

by Tuesday 347 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • stronglogos
    stronglogos

    I THANK JEHOVAH THAT I DONT HAVE THIS CONTRADICTION IN MY BIBLE BECAUSE I WOULD THROW IT AWAY!

    10 “Y OU are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none. 11 I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.” Is 43:10 NWT

    1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. Jn 1:1-3 NWT

  • middleman
    middleman

    Hey what's up Frank? Good to see ya...

  • Pilchard
    Pilchard

    stronglogos:

    I THANK JEHOVAH THAT I DONT HAVE THIS CONTRADICTION IN MY BIBLE BECAUSE I WOULD THROW IT AWAY!

    Pilchard:

    What does this mean?

    *** Isa 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” says Jehovah, “With my servant whom I have chosen; that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am he. Before me there was no God formed, neither will there be after me.


    Q) What does "Before me there was no God formed" mean?

    A) Before Jehovah existed there was no God.

    Why? Because Jehovah has always existed.

    Q) What does "neither will there be after me" mean?

    A) After Jehovah finishes existing there will be no God.

    Why? Because Jehovah will always exist.

    SO:

    *** Isa 43:10 ... Before me there was no God formed, neither will there be after me.

    No Gods pre-existed Jehovah and no God's will exist after he finishes his existence.

    It is a statement of God's eternal nature. That is all.

    God exists and there will never be an "after" Jehovah because he will never end just like there was never a "before" Jehovah because he always was.

    But DURING Jehovah's Godship he created many gods as the Bible fully shows in many places.

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hello pilchard,

    I have posted regarding this matter a couple of times.

    Let's see if you catch it this time?

    Hi pilchard,

    Good to see you back.

    Looks like you missed it so here it is again-all with regards to the God we keep talking about.

    Hi Pilchard,

    Out of all the gods, Christians have only one God, the Father.

    I am following Christ and He is my God, just like Thomas

    John 20:28 (New International Version)

    28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

    Now, I assume you have have time to read the three chapters in Revelation? Anyhow, here is a heads up.

    Revelation 1 (New International Version)

    Prologue

    1 The revelation of Jesus Christ

    7 Look, he is coming with the clouds,
    and every eye will see him,
    even those who pierced him
    ;
    and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.

    8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

    12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man,"dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

    17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

    Revelation 20 (New International Version)

    6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. John 4:13 7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. Isaiah 9:6

    Revelation 21 (New International Version)

    12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

    16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

    20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."
    Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
    So who is the Alpha and the Omega? All the best, Stephen

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    Well said pitchard. Stronglogos pitchard is right the trinity debate you do need to understand trinitarians make declarative statements on form/nature that have no bases biblically.

    it is trinitarians that say 3 can be 1 the biblie never says this.

    For me the definitive scripture is Jesus's own denial of being God.

    Luke 18:18-19 (New International Version)

    18 A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

    19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    hi cabasilas

    IF you check EVERY EXAMPLE from the bible every time FIRSTBORN is used the person or animal is part of the group/born to it, even if preeminence comes with it..

    If it meant king it would have said King which is a completely different word and meaning.

    But it uses firstborn which requires the person to be a Born/member of the group.

    Jesus was firstborn of the dead does that mean he is king of the dead of that he died and was resurrected/born from death into everlasting life?

    You can make a statement that something means anything but making staements on the bible you have to provide biblical proof! I can, can you?

    reniaa

  • middleman
    middleman

    Here's an online Greek interlinear of John1:1---> http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh1.pdf

    It's kinda interesting...

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    hi middleman yes it is interesting the absense of ho when refering the theos is very clear for anyone to see for themselves when held against the Ho theos that refer to THE God twice around it. John makes a clear distinction between The God - Ho theos and word theos without the ho.

    If you look up the 3rd century Egyptian sahidic Coptic this makes it even clearer as their grammer is more definite. and this clearly show it to be 'a god' or 'god-like' this is the earliest known coptic transcript. And was 100 years before the arian and athaniasian conflict over God and as we all know it was the athaniasians that got Caesars backing by offering him a 3 in 1 god that reflected romans own tri-Gods so he chose them. Arians with their One God belief were executed and their documents and teachings destroyed.

    The One good things is that respect for the bible stopped the by now trinitarians destroying translations of it but they did keep it hidden from the average man for many centuries. I only wish with my heart that the Hebrew version of mathew it's original language was still available for us to read but it went missing in the early centuries lost in time.

    Reniaa

  • Black Sheep
  • reniaa
    reniaa

    Hi black sheep for a seond I thought my previous research had been mistaken on this but i wiki'd it :)

    [edit] A Hebrew Gospel of Matthew

    Some scholars have argued that these medieval Hebrew manuscripts may have been descended (without any intervening translation) from ancient Hebrew manuscripts of Matthew, which were used by early Christians in the first or second century, but were nearly extinct by the time of Jerome, late in the fourth century. [ 1 ] Other scholars reject this theory, and argue that the medieval Hebrew manuscripts were instead descended (by translation) from medieval Greek or Latin manuscripts, and therefore that it is extremely unlikely that any of the unique readings found in these medieval Hebrew manuscripts could be ancient. [ 2

    these are later translation that have no connection with the original ones,

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