Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

by Tuesday 347 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Chalam

  Hi besty,

  Lastly, ask them to help you understand why the NIV managed a much more elegant translation with 20% less words than the NWT.

  This is a very important point. The NWT is not only erroneous with in some very subtle but powerful ways (e.g. John 1:1) but is also terrible English!

  The NWT is just plain difficult to read and understand and the spiritual truths which lie within the text have been tampered with.

  Add to the the WT doctrines Jesus is not God, The Cross is a "torture stake", death has no sting, the Holy Spirit does not speak etc. and it is a recipe for disaster.

  The Word and the Spirit are power. Neither are active at the "kingdom halls".

  Matthew 7:17 (New International Version)

  17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

  All the best, Stephen
• 

  Pilchard

  What does this mean?
  
  *** Isa 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” says Jehovah, “With my servant whom I have chosen; that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am he. Before me there was no God formed, neither will there be after me.
  
  
  Q) What does "Before me there was no God formed" mean?
  
  A) Before Jehovah existed there was no God.
  
  Why? Because Jehovah has always existed.
  
  Q) What does "neither will there be after me" mean?
  
  A) After Jehovah finishes existing there will be no God.
  
  Why? Because Jehovah will always exist.
  
  SO:
  
  *** Isa 43:10 ... Before me there was no God formed, neither will there be after me.
  
  No Gods pre-existed Jehovah and no God's will exist after he finishes his existence.
  
  It is a statement of God's eternal nature. That is all.
  
  God exists and there will never be an "after" Jehovah because he will never end just like there was never a "before" Jehovah because he always was.
  
  But DURING Jehovah's Godship he created many gods as the Bible fully shows in many places.
• 

  Chalam

  Hello Pilchard,

  Thanks for the post. Looks like I have some more questions.

  It is a statement of God's eternal nature. That is all.

  On this subject, would you agree that this is also a statement of God's eternal nature?

  Revelation 21:6-7 (New International Version)

  6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

  And this?

  Revelation 1:8 (New International Version)

  8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

  And this?

  Revelation 22:13 (New International Version)

  13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  Pilchard

  I think being the "Alpha andd the Omega" simply means Jehovah is the beginning and the end of matters.

  What he begins he finishes. He is the beginner and finisher of all things.

  Revelation 21:6-7 (New International Version)

  6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

  What he starts he brings to completion.
• 

  Chalam

  Hi Pilchard,

  The clue is here

  Revelation 21:6-7 (New International Version)

  6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son .

  So the Alpha and the Omega is Jehovah God right?

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  Pilchard

  Yes. That description is only applied to Jehovah.
• 

  Chalam

  Hi Pilchard,

  Can I ask you to read these three chapters please?

  Revelation 1

  Revelation 21

  Revelation 22

  Thanks in advance.

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  Pilchard

  What is your point?
• 

  besty

  quick reader Pilchard - if a bit of a shouty-sized font :-) why not fill in a few minutes whilst Chalam makes his point by answering my John 1:18 dilemma:

  New International Version: No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

  New World Translation: No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

  In line with your assertion that the NWT is correct, why did the <anonymous> Translation Committee see fit to translate John 1:18 with two different renderings of theos in the same verse?

  Also whilst you are asking Janko and 3rd Witness for help find out for me why the need to add the word [position] to the text.

  Lastly, ask them to help you understand why the NIV managed a much more elegant translation with 20% less words than the NWT.

  thanks
• 

  Chalam

  Hi Pilchard,

  My point is maybe you should read the three chapters where the term Alpha and the Omega is found and then reevaluate your statement regarding it.

  All the best,

  Stephen