Show-down with elder at the kingdom hall

by Hobo Ken 116 Replies latest jw friends

  • boyzone

    Hi iknowall558

    This elder is an appalling person and these podcasts show him in a very bad light. His unwillingness to admit where he got his info from speaks volumes and the only conclusion anyone can reach is that he was lying to your mum and making things up to portray you and Matt in as bad a light as possible. In fact, his whole reason was to make sure she sticks to the rules and shuns you. The rules come first - every time.

    Reading that part about the conversation repeated on the platform by your brother-in-law was awful. How you didn't walk up and give the lad a good slap around the face after that I just don't know. What a wicked thing for someone to do to another, all for disagreeing with the Society!

    It goes to show just who their god really is doesn't it? Its not Jehovah its not Jesus, its the Organization. They worship that organization so much that they're willing to lie, slander, gossip, use false arguments, create strife and divisions and inflict deep emotional pain to keep its reputation intact.

    I've faced similiar and know what you're all going through. My son was baptized at 18. He "came out" 3 years later but wasn't disassociated or disfellowshipped. He decided to leave quietly, stopped attending meetings and dropped off the JW radar. After 6 months (I suspect at the request of the CO) the elders decided they couldn't just let him leave and tried to contact him, not with the motive of trying to bring him back, but with a view to disassociate him because of, and I quote, "our paramount concern is the reputation of the congregation". My son tried everything to avoid the elders at this point. He didn't answer the phone, or the door to them and managed to avoid them for a few weeks more. But they didn't give up, eventually they caught up with him and asked him that loaded question "do you still want to be known as a Jehovahs Witness?" Of course he said no. From that point on he was formally disassociated.

    When I confronted the elder responsible and asked him why he had to pursue my son even after he'd left the congregation, I was told it was to keep the paperwork tidy. I was supposed to shun him, his grandparents were told to shun him and all the friends he grew up with now refused to even look at him, all to keep the paperwork tidy???? It was only after a conversation with my son that I was told the main reason was concern for their reputation, not him.

    Whatever the reason, both were poor excuses.

    The elders are all the same Lorraine, pathetic sad individuals who deserve our pity. May the Lord forgive them because I still have difficulty.

  • sweet pea
    sweet pea

    IKA you've all been very brave. This kind of thing rocks you to the core. I haven't listened to the latest podcast but I can imagine how it went. Listening to it would stir up bitter/angry/frustrated feelings.

    Having kind of been there (I never faced any of the elders with my issues, just sent them a letter, not disassociating but laying out the issues and begging not to be disfellowshipped but to be left alone in peace), I can identify with your pain. I think the hardest thing to live with is a trashed reputation - my best friend now thinks I am an evil liar. It still upsets me 2 years later to ponder on how old dear friends continue to view me when I know I am still the same person they used to love. No doubt it is the same for you.

    It must be incredibly hard for you living in a small community where the school situation is an ongoing challenge, I feel you. At least here in LA no one knows us and we have been able to start our lives afresh.

    I'm sure something good will come of those talks indirectly laying out your experience - surely somewhere in the back of the 'friends' minds, if they have any doubts themselves, something won't ring true.

    If you need a holiday in LA to get away from it all, just let us know!!

  • iknowall558

    BOYZONE Ronnie Hunter is one of the most plausible and highly respected elders you will come across. He is a 'giant' in many peoples eyes, but as you said, the podcasts show him in a very different way.......particularly this one. I did almost feel sorry for him. I was cringing when Matt came back with Mark (passwordprotected) and we played it back. He just seemed to come across so small and pathetic when the tables were turned on him. I hope your son wasn't affected too much by the fact that he had been reduced to nothing more than some info. on a bit of paper. It's disgusting that they even vocallised this to you, his mother. They need to control everything right down to your last footstep out the door. They may feel their reputation is pristine, but its only within their own house. There are too many of us on the outside now ready to throw a flood of light on all the hidden dirt. I feel the same as you and am finding it hard to forgive....but they do say that time is a great healer.

    SWEETPEA Hi . Thanks for your kind words. It's so right what you're saying. We are all still the same people. Some are lucky to come out intact, while others, unfortunately come out a bit broken. But , we are the lucky ones. We are free. The school situation will come to an end in 4 weeks when the holidays begin. So things are looking up. I compiled a letter for the Head based on one Boyzone had written. (thanks again boyzone). I also made a copy and put it through the KH letterbox. Im sure there are local witnesses listening in to the podcasts....I know they all know about it because the elders got wind of it recently and actually had a meeting to see what they were 'going to do about it'. They even assigned someone to go and check it out. They decided to let it go as they didn't want to let Matt have the' publicity' he was craving. If only they So, if even one of these ones are alerted and waken up, then it's been worth it.

    P.S. Packing my bikini as we speak..............!

  • wobble

    Well done both of you, I can't wait to hear the next podcast!

    I am sure you both know of the love and respect we on JWN feel for you, I hope the pain of what you are going through soon goes away

    May God bless you all,and may you cherish and use your Christian freedom,



  • iknowall558

    ~Thanks wobble. You'll need to fasten your seat belt for the next lot.

  • Hobo Ken
    Hobo Ken

    Thanks for all the support people....Much appreciated.

    I would like to state for the record that this particular man was aware of the issues involved as you will hear in a certain section of the judicial coming up. He gives an almost flawless picture of what I believed at the time some of which was based on what was said on this podcast. He knew where the battle lines were alright.

    Regarding mentioning Jesus and 607 , he you will recall was the one who turned the conversation on to doctrinal matters. He obviously felt that would take the heat off him and into more "comfortable territory". That was why I responded with that material. It shook him up big time.....he says so at the judicial.

    I was there to confront him on the lies and slurs on our character and our children. He obviously was uncomfortable and "caught on the hop", what a didn't stop him getting me out of bed one Saturday morning by sending two of his cronies to tell me that in four days I was being put on trial for apostasy and he was one of the chief witnesses at the trial.

    It did take a lot out of me to go down on Dec 25, in a pair of denims and a beanie hat, to the kingdom hall and confront the top dog for his atrocious behaviour. But it needed to be done. If he comes out of it looking bad then I'm sorry for him. But no matter how much you polish a turd it will always be a turd.( I'm not saying he's a turd btw)He represents a hateful , corrupt and immoral religious entity which he in fact worships. How can you look good when you represent that?

    It's like when you see a top barrister representing a guy who's blatantly guilty of some heinous crime. How do you feel? Do you think he's just doing his job?

    He knows the guy did it , the guy knows he did it, we all know he did it but the trial goes on, through the motions.

    That's the feeling I have about my exchanges with this guy. You kind of lose any regard for him when you actually know what he's trying to defend.


  • Luo bou to
    Luo bou to

    Pretty nifty piece of footwork avoiding the question "Is Jesus God" Me I am happy to worship Jesus. From reading the Gospells and the way he lived and treated people Jesus is exactly the God I am drawn to. And who was it that disfellowshipped the blind man who put faith in Jesus and worshipped him? The same ones who are doing this today the GB and their minions the Elders

  • judge rutherFRAUD
    judge rutherFRAUD

    WOW KEN great job telling this guy he's calling your wife a common whore. that takes a lot of balls on his part. you put him in his place on that. I like the way you called him a liar and then told him liars will not enter the kingdom, calling him a slander, a crap shephed you kept him on his heels he's keeps saying he's sorry for being a jackass. he keeps lying about what he said to your wifes mother. and I glad yoiu kept pressing him on it. you always have to press these dopes. he never remembers anything because he's a washwoman. he can't answer you about what you believe is not in the bible. this guy is a piece of shit. this guy doesn't want to touch 607 1914 1918 with a ten foot pole. then you told him if he wants to teach these lies door to door he's going to be destroyed. very nice your telling him he's blind. you got him good on the fruits of the sprit. he's admitting he's a liar and trouble maker. he's sorry for lying I love the way you keep pressing him. put his head in a vise. you should have told him the wts worshipped jesus till 1954. i love the way you told him jesus was worshipped and he can get out of it he has no answers. he's agreeing with you with tells me he's not so sharp. your making this guy look like a spritual drunkard, he doesn't know which side of the fence he stands on with jesus? this guy is supposed to be a big shot jw? MISTER KEN you ripped this guy to shreads. oh boy i really like this much better than the other tapes. I was waiting for you to smack him in the face for calling your wife a whore,. ken this guy is weak all you have to do is put a little pressure on this guy and he folds like a house of cards. I only wish i wasn't 1000's of miles away I would love to have a go at this dope. again GREAT WORK KEN TO YOU AND YOUR WIFE. your fellow WT EXPOSER rutherFRAUD


    I think it is very easy to attack an elder on too wide a subject, I have done it many a time.

    It’s very easy to allow a subject to go from one to another, this can happen when you have got the elder on the run.

    What I found was to make them answer the point in question (not easily done when they are wrong) before attacking the next, then reminding them what they have just said before carrying on.

    As been said many a time, little will come out of it.


    Never argue with a fool, he will drag you down to his level, then beet you with experience!!


  • scotsman

    Sometimes I wonder if challenging elders like Ronnie is a bit like challenging the BNP - fruitless, and increases their sense of self worth.

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