by kairos 64 Replies latest jw friends
An open question to anyone who went the attorney/legal action route of making a JC "go away". . . . .
Did you just threaten legal action? Or did you actually have an attorney waiting in the wings? If so, an what kind of attorney (anti-defamation?) did you use?
Show up to every JC meeting scheduled, but openly pull a tape recorder out. And when told to turn it off, refuse to do so.
Would they proceed while being recorded? Or would they reschedule, reschedule, reschedule or DF you in absentia. Can they DF you in absentia if you're willing to meet, although you bring a tape recorder every time you meet?
I'm with flipper on this one. Demand for the witnesses to the alleged offence to be there in person. Then question the hell out of them. Remind them that under the mosiac law that false accusations were punishable by stoning. Then question the elders if they will form a judicial committee to deal with the false witness.
Elders are bullies. Bullies back down when they are stood up to.
3rd Gen -
You are correct in the direct no nonsense approach.
IF YOU NINTERFERE IN MY LIFE AND FREEDOMS YOU ARE AT GREAT RISK.
And yes you do have freedoms and yes these assholes can be stopped.
While I wouldn't recommend it for everyone, I openly threatened the two elders that "invited" me to a JC. I was calm and quiet, but painfully direct.
I realized if I didn't stand up to these guys mentally, emotionally, and physically, they would haunt me forever. I would always be hiding and pretending because some random guys imagined they were my superiors and demanding I be submissive to them.
I told them "no" and they accepted it because I gave them no other choice. I am still friendly with them and chat whenever I see them. I am not angry at them anymore, they are just ordinary guys now, not elders.
They seem to realize I don't fit in their group and I dont need shepherded like a helpless sheep. If you act like a sheep, someone will always attempt to shepherd you.
CT: Would they proceed while being recorded?
Not if they're following directions from the FDS. The elder's book specifically prohibits anyone recording a meeting.
I do know some have successfully muddied the waters ( threats of legal action etc ) but to be honest generally speaking once a JC committee is formed, you pretty much are toast. It's all over. The fat lady hasn't just sung - she has bowed to the applause & gone back to the changing room.
The whole idea of a JC isn't to see if the person is guilty of the offence - thats already been determined. It is to see if they are "repentant" or not. If the person doesn't turn up - then that pretty much is case closed. And an appeal is hopeless. A DO once told me that looking through the district records over the last 10 years there had been over 50 appeal committees formed and only on one occasion had the decision been overturned. That isn't good odds.
The problem in trying to claim some kind of legal protection is all the cards are stacked in the Societies favour. They have as much right to kick someone out as the local pub has the right to evict ( or not allow entry ) some drunk or someone they don't like or someone with the wrong colour football scarf. And the change to a very vanilla statement at the KH ( xxx is no longer a JW ) is quite clever in that it covers any angle of possible defamation or a reputation damaging.statement.
The only way as others have said is to insist that any witnesses turn up. Sometimes they won't want to testify against you - other times the witnesses are really weak. It's worth a try.
It is up to you if you want your "day in court" ( in this case very much a kangaroo one. ) Maybe - just maybe - you might "get off". But sad to say I would say the writing is very much on the wall here.
The only authority that elders have is that which you allow them to have.
If you allow them none, they have none
You don't have to prove anything. You don't have to respond. You don't have to threaten lawsuits. Just ignore them. If you feel you must respond, keep it short and simple; "I will not be attending your tribunal. Have fun without me. Do not contact me again"
Sure, you'll probably be DFd anyway, but if you were already going to battle with them, why care, and why get all worked up about it. The best revenge is living well, and without giving them any satisfaction of having affected you or your lifestyle.
The elder's book specifically prohibits anyone recording a meeting.
Oubliette: Right. But what do they do if the person keeps showing up with a recorder, fully willing to cooperate with the committee, but only under the condition of being allowed to record it? Would they just DF the person in absentia? Or would they keep attempting to have the meeting only to have to postpone it because the person shows up with a recorder again?
I think is both sad and disturbing that a religious group so corrupt and fraudulent as this one can have that much power and intervening control over people's lives.
Knowing what I know now about this fraud, if I were ever to receive a phone call or a letter stating some elders wanted a formal JC meeting, I would tell them to piss off and that I'm no longer wanting to be involved in this religion plain a simple.
No further contact is necessary or wanted.
You shouldn't let these men play their self imposed power game over you, if you do all your doing is appealing to their self identifying and assuming power. and when you consider where they're receiving that power it becomes more of laughable folly.
