Satan being unable to repent because he was perfect is a WTBTS idea. Don't we all realize the WT doctrine machine is full of kinks in the gears? Why base your beliefs on what they believe?
Can demons repent?
by heyfea 63 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Chalam
Hi,
Can demons repent?
Seems unlikely.
2 Peter 2:4 (New International Version)
4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
Unlike those who died before the flood.1 Peter 3:18-20 (New International Version)
18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
I guess they got to hear the gospel preached because it wasn't out in their day and neither did they have the law.
Romans 5:12-14 (New International Version)
Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come. All the best, Stephen -
Gregor
Not only can they repent, they can get a low cost mortage on a home and a new battery operated Dodge with no money down, 6.9 % financing, and a $2500.00 rebate
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FlyingHighNow
Chalam, not all of us believe the Bible is a completely inspired book. And many Christians are universalists who do not believe anyone will cling to evil forever. It's so liberating to let go of the idea that the bible was written by God. I mean really, I believe in God but I do not believe he told the Israelites to slaughter men, women and children to take Israel for their own.
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Chalam
Hi FlyingHighNow,
No problem, I understand-I found the Old Testament tough going when I first read it.
So if you don't believe in the biblical God, where can you find out about Him?
All the best,
Stephen
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Satanus
'So if you don't believe in the biblical God, where can you find out about Him?'
Heehee. The biblegod is only in the bible;( Funny, ain't it, that only one little barbaric desert tribe discovered this supposedly almighty and only god. None of the other ancient nations or tribes got the same god. They mostly had their own. Those other gods were able block the bible god for thousands of yrs. He is still being blocked from mch of the world.
S
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FlyingHighNow
There are many ways to find out about God. The Bible is very flawed in it's dual between the God of love and the evil, jealous, violent God. Take the good sensible things from the Bible and then look at other sources such as the American Native spirituality. In your heart, deep down somewhere, you know God has to be very intelligent, loving an aware of all extenuating circumstances, that his fondest dream is for all his intelligent creatures to be won over by love.
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BurnTheShips
Satan being unable to repent because he was perfect is a WTBTS idea.
No it isn't, as noted in page one of thus thread. It is much older than that.
BTS
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Narkissos
(Again an empty post I cannot edit.)
Focusing on the "because he was perfect" clause, I wouldn't say it is a uniquely WT doctrine but I doubt it is much earlier. The notion of perfection as ascribed to the original state of creatures is hardly common in classical (ancient and middle-ages) theology. It is definitely not taught in the NT where perfection (teleios etc.) refers to a state which can be attained here and now (especially Matthew), or that the Son of God himself reaches through suffering (Hebrews). In any case perfection is the end (telos) of a process rather than a starting point. Moreover, the notion of "perfection" is never linked (afaik) with the unforgivableness of sin. I read BTS's thomistic quotes on p. 1 but I didn't find any mention of perfection, rather the superiority of angels over humans which is a different matter. Keep in mind that in most classical theology (contrary to the WT) Adam is not outside the scope of redemption.
I'm not sure where the idea came from exactly though: Methodism brought the notion of perfection (although in a different, moral sense of holiness through "sanctification") to the fore, and from there it became a keyword of pietistic and sectarian Protestantism; but who applied it first to the original state of creatures (angelic or human) I don't know...
As to the notion of apocatastasis which I referred to earlier, it is interesting to note that it met a rather wide reception in the early church beyond Origen, and that it was only officially condemned in the 6th century AD.