Can demons repent?

by heyfea 63 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Can demons repent?

    In the Thomistic tradition, they cannot; they will not. We can choose to repent, the demons do not. It is not a choice they will ever, ever make. The angels are from eternity, and beyond all time. Unlike ourselves, they know the truth without room for doubt. They made their decision in the very instant of their existence.

    THE CONSEQUENCES OF THIS SINGLE MOMENT of trial of the Angels are staggering. There is no such thing as a second chance for an Angel, no period of contrition and penance. Their freedom from ignorance and passion, their instantaneous grasp of truth removes all possibility of a change of will for them. They love or hate at once and beyond recall; as fixed by that instant as we are by death.................

    THE EVIL ANGELS, in that first instant of their abuse of liberty, rejected God. Caught in a deliberate fascination of their own beauty, they refused to look to that beauty's source, refused to seek for happiness outside their own satisfying self; and so attempted to find in themselves what can be found only in God-----the answer to the will's Divinely given desire for goodness without limit. These devils can now sin all they like, and know themselves less free with every sin; the abuse of liberty mounts with each sin, the chains grow more galling, the self-imposed slavery more bitter, and the hatred more consumingly intense. Their choice was freely made, abusing liberty; and it is eternally confirmed to make up Hell's most despairing torment.

    The decisions made by eternal spirit creatures are eternal and irrevocable. They have chosen pride and envy, and their choice is eternal; they will never change their minds. We, who are so much less than the fallen angels, will yet be greater than them, and this torments them and makes them hate us all the more.

    THAT A MERE MAN, the lowest of intellectual creatures and so far beneath the devils in natural gifts, should, by the grace of God, go beyond the limits of nature to eternal life in the home of God is galling to the devil and a constant prod to his envy. That this particular soul should reach such heights triumphing over Satan's diabolic genius is a bitter humiliation and added fuel to the fire of his hatred of God. Both that envy and hatred are fed by the devil's disgust with the sins of men. True, he knows that he is guilty of all the sins he induces men to commit; but that guilt is a far cry from any affection for the things that so easily enslave a man. A man surrendering to the allure or violence of passion, immersing himself in the world of sense, playing the slave to things designed to serve him-----all this is revolting to the devil's purely spiritual nature even when he is playing the principal part in bringing about such a degradation of a man. His utter disgust with the depths to which man can sink is still more reason for his envy that such creatures can still aspire to heaven while Satan himself must grovel eternally in Hell.

    Our wills, whether human or angelic, are sovereign, and not even God will violate them. We humans live in the span of Time, and our choices can still change. The demons then chose to reject God, now choose to reject God, and will always choose to reject God. Forever. Their choice is their Hell and torment.

    BTS

  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    It's always been interesting to me that Jesus had conversations with the Devil, who was a known "bad association". Was Satan not "disfellowshipped" yet?

    He apparently could enter into the assembly of angels and challenge, according to Job. Does he still have that ability? If 1914 was truly when Satan was cast to earth, did that constitute something like disfellowshipping because he could not enter the heavenly realm? If it wasn't 1914 he was cast down to earth, can he still go into the heavenly realm? When will he be cast down out of heaven?

    Was Christ talking to Satan because it was impossible for Christ to be tempted? If he couldn't be tempted, what was the point of tempting him?

    Questions like this never got answered in my JW Bible studies, either. *G*

    BurnTheShips, your post up there addressed a few questions I've had for years about angels and demons that JWs do not discuss much, or not at all. Thomistic thought on the nature of angels seems to go hand in hand with some things I've read about quantum physics and the nature of time, namely that there are levels of existence outside of our time and physical laws. Spiritual beings would have to be such to be "eternal".

    Interesting that Russell taught that demons could repent and return...I don't think that's in JW doctrine now if it's addressed much at all.

    Angels do not seem to be prone to sin except the deliberate sin that makes them demons, but again, I haven't seen the WTS address these questions much. Perhaps because it's an awkward fit with some of their own doctrine?

  • cabasilas
    cabasilas

    I'm not sure of what the Society believes now, but in the 1920s they promoted a book that claimed to be dictated by a repentant fallen angel! The book was entitled Angels and Women.

    You can read about it here:

    http://www.seanet.com/~raines/women.html

    The book was favorably reviewd by The Golden Age magazine and a discount on ordering the book could be had if you mentioned you had heard about it from The Golden Age:

    http://www.seanet.com/~raines/review.html

    The book Angels and Women can be downloaded from:

    http://www.archive.org/details/AngelsAndWomen

  • BabaYaga
    BabaYaga
    Cabasilas said: I'm not sure of what the Society believes now, but in the 1920s they promoted a book that claimed to be dictated by a repentant fallen angel! The book was entitled Angels and Women.

    Good heavens, are you kidding me? The Society actually had a spirit "dictated" publication? Like Seth Speaks? Man this just keeps getting better and better.

  • cabasilas
    cabasilas

    As Raines explains in the first link I gave:

    In1878 J. G. Smith published a novel titled Seola. In 1924 it was revised by a Bible Student (JW) and published under the title Angels and Women. It was recommended by the Watchtower Society in two Golden Age magazines.

    According to the Watchtower's view of how the book was written, Angels and Women is an automatic writing book. The Foreword states that the woman who wrote it was "impelled to write it after listening to beautiful music." It also said that the spirit that "dictated" the novel to Mrs. Smith was one of the fallen angels who desired to return to God's organization.

    Why then did the Society endorse this book since they have condemned reading books "dictated" to authors by fallen angels or demons as being spiritism? The Society at the time believed that some demons or fallen angels were honest and could be saved and return to God's organization. Angels and Women, they believed, was channeled or "dictated" to the author by one such fallen angel who was honest and told the truth about pre-flood conditions on earth. They endorsed the book and said it shed some "light" on the subject since it came from an 'honest' fallen angel who was there at the time. They therefore claimed to receive new "light" from a demon according to their own statements.

    This is a clear example to me of Rutherford and the Society believing in and endorsing the views of "honest" demons and also a direct involvement with the occult and spiritism which they would call "deviltry" or "demonism." Today we would call this channeling.

  • Atlantis
  • BabaYaga
    BabaYaga

    THANK YOU Casabilas and Atlantis!

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Arguing on the assumption that demons do exist...

    If angels were created in eternity, where/when were the spirits that we are created?

    S

  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    Satanus, it depends on if you believe that spirits are in heaven first then placed in human bodies at conception, as some religions teach, or that the spirit is created when the human is conceived, or if the spirit is born the moment a person is. The Witness teaching is nihilistic in that it teaches that the spirit is there only to bring the body to life, keep it living, then departs back to it's source upon death, no part of humans is immortal or survives death, in other words.

    Strangely, that is quite like the secular humanism they rail against, except for the fact that they also believe in resurrection after the "when you're dead you're dead" part. But, on the nature of death, that nothing conscious survives it, they are quite like most atheists. *G* I bet they'd shit a brick if that comparison was made to the average Witness.

    I always wonder if that was Rutherford's influence? He was a professed atheist for a time, anyway, before being a JW for a while. What a stitched together quilt of beliefs constitutes JW doctrines when you really look at the origins.

    No wonder these guys don't put their names to anything as author since Russell...would you? Keeps disgruntled misled people from hunting you down with a meat cleaver.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    mindmelda

    Good observations. The wt theology is hardly that. It has huMANs, spirit MEN and a god MAN. Very huMANistic. Perhaps, a trace of spiritual, at best.

    S

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