Russell Not a Mason!

by johnnyc 71 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  cognizant dissident

  If you want to credibly debunk Mr. Icke post the book page and paragraph at least I am posting according to scholastic standards.

  By quoting and referencing Icke, you have simply proved that he makes the claim Russel was a Freemason. You have not proved that the claim was true or that Icke wrote and referenced his book in a scholarly fashion. The onus is on the one making the claim to demonstrate their claim. The claim itself is not proof. It would have been more helpful to quote the section of Icke's book where he provides verifiable evidence for his claim.

  You can say and think what you want, I have read a lot about what is going on in this world and Mr. Icke is closer to the truth than most things I have read.

  Again, you make a claim but provide no evidence for it.

  I read a book a week.

  It's not how much you read, it is the quality. The average North American reads a book a week. The top sellers are TV guide and Harlequin romances.

  I guess anybody can publish and print anything.

  So nothing is relibale.

  True, so all the more reason to be very choosy about what you read and make sure your sources are credible.
• 

  digderidoo

  So, David Icke says Russell was a Mason.

  David Icke also says the Royal family, Tony Blair, Bush and Putin are lizards.

  Mmm...must be true then.

  Paul
• 

  cognizant dissident

  No one can convince me that the WT does more harm that good - and no one can convince me the WT is anything but sincere in their efforts. Not to say they are perfect, or that they have 100% truth. I just do not believe they have any malice....

  I agree, I don't think the WTBTS has any malice. That is not to say that incorrect teachings do no harm. Their misleading teachings on blood transfusions have cost the lives of thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses. If you add up all these isolated deaths, how many thousands would it take for the JW's to be labelled a destructive and harmful cult along the lines of Jonestown or Branch Davidians? If the members are spread out all over the world and swallow the poison punch a few at a time, nobody notices.

  I would also say that their constant ranting against higher education and attempts to censor information available to their flock is harmful to the quality of life of their members.

  Their policies on child abuse and spousal abuse are harmful to all the women and children who are deceived by them.

  Malice and harm are really two separate issues.
• 

  ninja

  lol at Zagor....."it doesn't say it right after that.....it says it 4 paragraphs later"....come on what came first zaggy?......freemasonry or JW's?.....freemasonry or christian science?
• 

  ninja

  Knights Templars...the medieval order are connected with freemasonry.....who was Jacques DeMolay?........what is the DeMolay organisation?....http://www.demolay.org/...see for yourself
• 

  ninja

  p.s....freemasonry also claims to be older than the catholic church too.....
  
  
  "As regards to Masonry, Babel of course represented a Masonic enterprise and early expositors reaped full benefit from the facts. They remembered that the people, who were of 'one language and one speech' journeyed from the East to the West, like those who have been tried and proved as Master Masons. When they reached an abiding place in the land Shinar, it is affirmed that they dwelt therein as Noachide, being the first characteristic name of Masons. It was here that they built their high tower of confusion. Out of evil comes good, however, and the confusion of tongues gave rise to 'the ancient practice of Masons conversing without the use of speech.'" -Arthur Edward Waite, A New Encyclopedia of Freemasonry and of Cognate Instituted Mysteries: Their Rites, Literature and History, Volume I, Page 61, 62
  
  written by A E Waite
  
  http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/esoterica/waite_a/waite_a.html
• 

  ninja

  In the Masonic York Rite Manuscript we find: "at the making of the Tower of Babel there was Masonry first much esteemed of, and Nimrod was a Mason himself and loved well Masons."- John T Lawrence, The Perfect Ashlar, Page 295
• 

  johnnyc

  cognizant dissident: I don't disagree with some of what you say, although, there are also many who change their lives for the better when they join the WT - a great many. Concerning the blood issue - whereas there are many who have died in their refusal of blood, a great deal of those people would have perhaps died of their ailment anyways, and very infrequently does anything like that occur to young ones who dont make their own decision on the matter (yes, there is anyways the exception to the rule) Before you go try to save one JW child from this problem, start first with the millions who die each year from starvation. Bottom line is that this world sucks, and is unloving and uncaring. So many problems abound, children and people die all the time from this, that, and the other. Most who die from not taking blood decide that on their own - regardless of the pressure - it comes down to a personal decision. If people would prefer to die than to be DF'd, then that tells you something about their dedication to the WT. Again, not saying it is right, but they are really not "hurting" people, and it could be said they do good in their ministry (dont need a million quasi-examples of relational harm upon humanity). Also, since we all know that the WT teaches its members to be good citizens, they make great neighbors too.
• 

  shamus100

  there are also many who change their lives for the better when they join the WT - a great many

  Hi Jonny,

  First off, on the quote above, I have to 100 percent disagree with you there. People change because they get dont' like what's going on around them. They get depressed. The watchtower swoops in, and gives these people a crutch to hobble on. They end up social misfits and divide they're families. My advice? Get to your real issues. Get some counselling, talk to someone. Human beings can't go through life all alone; we're naturally gegarious creatures that need the support of others.

  As to the research on Russell, I guess we all have to make up our own minds. Are there unbalance apostates? Yep. Ever hear of Dannyhazard? Check out his posting history. I don't know him in real life, but sounds like a freaking nut job. Is there unbalanced information on the net? Oh hell yeah! This is one of the best and one of the worst places to get information. Who knows? It could be some 35 year old man living in his parents basement wearing his mothers panties posting that nonsense.

  It comes down to making up your own mind, I guess. At least you have the opportunity to prove or disprove the Watchtower at this point. I give you a lot of credit for asking questions at this point.
• 

  BizzyBee

  Concerning the blood issue - whereas there are many who have died in their refusal of blood, a great deal of those people would have perhaps died of their ailment anyways, and very infrequently does anything like that occur to young ones who dont make their own decision on the matter (yes, there is anyways the exception to the rule)

  johnnyc: with all due respect, your reasoning is very flawed.

  Dying from the effects of say, an automobile accident, is unfortunately unavoidable in certain circumstances. Dying from lack of a blood transfusion that might give one a 90% chance of survival is criminally tragic.

  Children dying from lack of blood transfusion is not "infrequent" - whatever than means. If it were your child, one would be too many.

  Before you go try to save one JW child from this problem, start first with the millions who die each year from starvation. Bottom line is that this world sucks, and is unloving and uncaring. So many problems abound, children and people die all the time from this, that, and the other.

  Since we're all going to die anyway - why even try to save lives? Rubbish!

  Most who die from not taking blood decide that on their own - regardless of the pressure - it comes down to a personal decision. If people would prefer to die than to be DF'd, then that tells you something about their dedication to the WT.

  It tells me that the WT is bloodguilty for misleading people and then forcing them to make such a terrible choice.

  Again, not saying it is right, but they are really not "hurting" people, and it could be said they do good in their ministry (dont need a million quasi-examples of relational harm upon humanity). Also, since we all know that the WT teaches its members to be good citizens, they make great neighbors too.

  So, while we all agree that it's not right, and people die from it - you say they are not really "hurting" anyone? Do you actually think about what you are saying? BTW, JWs are no better as citizens or neighbors than the average person who does not get involved in their community or give back to those less fortunate.