Ok so I have clamed down now from reniaa. Yes Flipper I agree that it would be good for me to share my story but I am just not quite ready yet. I guess I am still in shook that this is really happening. I still am hopping it is all just a bad dream and what I am seeing is not truly happening. But I know that is just wishful dreaming. It is hard because I am a born in and this has been my whole life this religion. The pedophiles are what woke me up. Mayve in a while I can share what I know. Sometime I truly feel like I am having a nerves breakdown. Like I am just loosing it the stress is very hard. Thank you Flipper for your kind words and ones like reniaa is the reason I am fighting so hard form within. It would be imposable to do this from outside so if I get DF I could do nothing aht I think that would kill me to know that this is happening. So I am trying to hang in. Thank you again Filpper
Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Protection ? Not. Check this Out !
by flipper 83 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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OnTheWayOut
If a reminder will help, the JW members are told to go to the elders for help.
Let's not even discuss elders being molesters. It happens, but the real issue
is the faithful and obedient members who are molested going to faithful and
obedient elders for help.The first thing they do is put the organization on high alert that a situation may
hurt the congregation and organization. It's even first in their own literature.
In the past, and most likely in the present, the elders drill the poor victim about
where Brother Johnson touched them, how many times, stuff like that. If the victim
is a pretty post-pubescent girl, they put her through even more stuff like, "Did you
experience orgasm or did he?"If they cannot corroborate the story after putting the victim through the ordeal of
retelling it (such a brave thing), then they put the victim in the same room with the
alleged predator and put the victim through it again.If they cannot corroborate and he doesn't confess (most cases would be of a single
accuser, and the predator doesn't want to confess in front of people who could be
forced to testify), then the very people approached for help become antagonists.
"Well, don't tell anyone in the congregation. Don't spread unsubstantiated slander.
It's up to you if you want to report this, but we haven't heard anything to testify about.
If you spread slander, we will meet judicially."If nothing comes of it, the victim sees nothing of a protection come to others. The
victim is made to feel bad about coming forward.You can say all you want about this not being a JW-problem any worse than any other
group. Certainly, I would tend to agree as far as the number of predators. But the
way WTS has trained elders to circle the wagons does little to protect the children and
it discourages children from coming forward.If Little Suzy was not in the cult, her first step might have been to go to authorities of the
police or her school. She would have been better off in 99% of those cases. -
flipper
VERY STUPID 77 - I totally understand your position and the need to wait and be careful. Please be assured of my wife and my support to you as a friend. I'm so sorry it is stressing you to the " nervous breakdown " point. It truly is hard when we have been raised in it to see that everything we were led to believe is a lie. You will make it sis - keep your chin up ! You have a good heart and are fighting for the children. You are on the right side of the issue, for justice. And that is never anything to feel sorry or guilty for ! Keep the good work up- feel free to call anytime. Your friend, Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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flipper
OTWO- Very true what you say. The incredible interrogation that abuse victims have to go through in front of their abusers is criminal. And I have heard that before - what you said about young women being asked if they had an orgasm or not. Hell, if I was a fly on the wall watching elders put some poor young sister through that, I'd morph into a human real quick throwing a haymaker at the elders face - and when he's laying on the ground - ask the ba$tard- " Hey brother so and so- Did you orgasm yet ? "
The point is that it's obvious that the main concern of the WT society is the protection of their reputation to the public, and their members - not the protection of children. Pretty sick. Especially when they try to cover it up and DF people for alleged " slander " when trying to take it to the authorities
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Mary
reniaa said: In this case the 'always two elder' rule when visiting people is refreshing when other churches don't do it and the priests/vicars still visit parishioners alone, the pairing on ministry too and gathering in groups is also productive in protection. Do you accept that if followed properly always two visiting rule and going on doors in pairs is a measure of protection to children?
WTH are you babbling about Reniaa?? the 'always two elder' visiting people has absolultely NOTHING to do with problems of pedophilia within the Organization. The Organization demands "two eye witnesses" to the molestation----something that pedophiles makes sure never happens. Without that, and without a confession, the pedophile goes free. The fact that the Organization settled a lawsuit out of court rather than have it become (even more) public, shows that they have been far more interested in protecting their reputation rather than protecting children.
You have got to be one of the stupidest, most brainless idiots I have ever encountered on any board. Your link to Dateline (which ironically broke the story about the abuse in the WTS) shows how you fail to grasp the seriousness of the situation. Since this is 'God's Chosen one's' that are under suspicion, you have no rebuttal other than this link by which you are insinuating that anyone in the Organization who has accused a fellow Christian of molesting them, are liars. By doing so, you insult everyone who was molested by a JW and believe me, there are plenty of them. I would suggest you read Lady Lee's experience or that of Big Tex or countless others before you open your mouth.
You're dispicable.
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isaacaustin
reniaa said: In this case the 'always two elder' rule when visiting people is refreshing when other churches don't do it and the priests/vicars still visit parishioners alone, the pairing on ministry too and gathering in groups is also productive in protection. Do you accept that if followed properly always two visiting rule and going on doors in pairs is a measure of protection to children?
Reniaa,
You think that is why 2 elders visit people? You are quite wrong. The reason 2 visit, on things such as shepherding calls is in the event the person they are visiting expresses doubts on WT dogma. If 2 elkders are present, one is is less likely to agree with the person with the other elder present. And two witnesses are not their in case of judicial action.
Question Reniaa- Do you intentionally say stupid things or do they fall out of your head by mistake?
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chellechelle
the first i would say is the same as you, why both the chil and the accused molester or even rapesty together. i know from experiance that it was hard enough for me jsut to admit what had happened to the elders when i was abused. and this was not even by a member of the congregation. i could barely sit ther and tell them what happened.. so if a small child has the courage and the ability to go up to two strange looking older men and tell them that another man has touched their private parts. guess what their tellign the truth. this stuff about if there are no wittnesses is absolutely bullshit. i dont know how and organization who claims to love their neighbour and their children say that if a child is molested there has to be a wittness of this act in order for it to be punished. ok, why the hell would a molester or a rapest take his victim to a place that was open to the public where he could be seen and cought to do this. ofcourse there arent going to be any wittnesses. this requirement is just stupid. and then forcing the poor scared child to sit there and face his molester while he openly lies about what he has done to him/her. the is further abuse in itself. besides the fact that he could be sitting there sending hhim/her signals telling them not to tell.
i cant understand how the only thing they can do is remove some privledges. that doesnt preotect any children in any ways.this is jsut ludacris to me and because of my personal experience is dealing with the elders after being abused i can not stand to think that this is happening to small defenseless children
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Hortensia
this IS a world-wide problem in many organizations. But many organizations are taking appropriate steps to stop the abuse. The same can't be said for the WTBTS. Since when do pedophiles do their damage in front of witnesses? There are never going to be two witnesses, unless there are two or more victims willing to speak up. And the victims have a hard time speaking out against an abuser for many reasons, including the fear of not being believed. And I thought this was despicable: "Suppose, for example , that a long time ago a 16-year-old boy had sexual relations with a consenting 15-year-old girl ." That totally sidesteps the issue. That isn't pedophilia, that's just teenage kids being normal. Those two things, the two witness rule, and the really incredibly stupid example of the 15 and 16 year old kids, are to me the most stunningly stupid comments in the whole thing.
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LovesDubs
Does Renaia have any small children, neices, nephews..the elders' children...she would happily leave alone for a few hours with these fine upstanding citizens?
Maybe that it what it will take for her to see the bullshit...for someone SHE loves to be molested and scarred for life.
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flipper
MARY- I agree - I believe some on this board need to have more empathy and sensitivity to what molestation victims are going through. It's so " Watchtower Witnessey " of them not to be empathetic. I truly feel that in time this " child abuse " issue will be one of the many things that helps bring the WT society down.
ISAAC USTIN- I agree. There needs to be more sensitivity by some on this issue.
CHELLECHELLE- Hey Chellechelle - Good points you make ! It's disgusting that pervie elders make a child abuse victim face their abuser and have to talk about this crime that's been committed against them ! It's disgusting. You are right - the molester might be pressuring or threatening the abused child to not say certain things which would prove the molesters guilt ! That has happened. Removing privileges in the congregation is a joke as to it's protecting children. The molester will still seek out to abuse children whether or not he's an elder, pioneer, or a ministerial servant. I can't stand it either knowing there are defenseless children still being abused in this organization. Makes me so angry ! I think the entire governing body should be DFed and shipped off to Siberian frozen ice camps !
HORTENSIA - The victims not only are unwilling to speak up out of fear of " not being believed " - but there have been actual cases where a child abuser threatens the child's life or their families life if the child says anything about the abuser ! So it's another " fear " tactic that pedophiles use. I agree - The 16 yr. old having sex with the 15 yr. old girl was ridiculous comparing that to " child abuse ". Just one among many stupid comments by the WT society in this write - up !
LOVES DUBS- It might take an act of child abuse in her own family to get Reniaa to admit there is a grave serious problem of great proportions in the Jehovah's Witnesses cult. I would never wish that evil on anybody though
