Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa 343 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  OnTheWayOut

  I already said I don't hold dates against them, it looks like they did get a bit enthusiastic over 1975 and this is similar to a thousand of other religions especially young ones but one picture showed an apology so we either accept that or not.

  They left just barely enough wiggle room to say that they didn't quite say that
  Armageddon would come in 1975, yet they did encourage people to believe it.

  They did applaud those that put all their hopes in that false prophecy. They
  held them up as examples.

  They did not apologize when the end did not come, but tried to say "We never
  said it. YOU ALL MEMBERS RAN TOO FAR WITH THIS. DON'T BLAME US."
  They only, years later, included themselves in the group that may have been
  overly enthusiastic about the possibilities. They only did it years later, because
  they had negative growth and too many members speculating about what a
  sorry excuse they received when WTS blamed the members.

  WTS predicted the end in 1914, shortly afterward, 1925, 1975, 20th century,
  and before the 1914-Generation passes away. They subscribe to none of those
  anymore. They claim spirit-direction and deny inspiration. What kind of spirit-
  direction NEVER EVER EVER gets their predictions right? EVER?
  
  Things they got wrong besides the date for Armageddon-

  The last days began in 1799.
  Jesus began ruling in heaven in 1874.
  The prophets of old would be resurrected to earth by 1925.
  They would need a mansion in California to house them.
  Millions alive in 1925 would never die.
  Aluminum is deadly.
  Since 1914, there have been an increase in earthquakes.
  The number of the anointed have been completed and gathered by 1935.

  I could go on and on, but there's not much point as you know how to find these
  subjects. Just name some predictions (or whatever you might call them) from
  WTS that came true. But make sure they actually said it BEFOREHAND.
  WTS is notorious for saying "NO, we said something different from what we said."
• 

  StAnn

  Reniaa said:

  I'm very frustrating for them on here because I answer emotionally

  Reniaa, you're completely missing the point. I know I've been harsh and probably flat out mean, but we're frustrated with you because:

  WE'RE TRYING TO RESCUE YOU!

  It's like watching a drowning woman and we keep throwing her a life preserver and she just ignores it! So we get into a boat and go out to her and offer her our hands and she turns away! So we try to grab her and pull her into the boat but she keeps jumping back in!

  You're drowning in the WT, Reniaa, and we can see it so plainly. And you have children and you're taking them down with you.

  All life is of value~even yours. And we hate to see you wasting it, completely devoted to a company that calls itself a religion and teaches lies.

  You frustrate us, Reniaa, because we care about all JWs who are trapped, as you are, and appear to want to stay trapped. However, you are the exception because, if you were completely satisfied in the WTS, you wouldn't be posting here on this board.

  So we're deluded enough to think that, if you're here, it is possible that in a backhanded kind of way, you're reaching out to us for help. And we're trying to help you.

  It's as if you are a blind woman and you're walking straight into a pit and we're trying to detour you around the pit but you're hell-bent on your own destruction. We want to help you, Reniaa, but you have to want to be helped first.

  StAnn
• 

  Leolaia

  did they use the word cross? No! can the words be translated using words that acurately convey the words used? (yes execution stake or torture stake) you are trying to say its ok to use 'Garden' instead of 'grassy area' it may well be a garden but if the words used are grassy area then they are the ones we should use. whether jesus died on any cross-like instrument is immaterial and despite you research its not definitively proved.

  1) The Greeks did not use the word "cross", that's an English word. 2) So the question is what English word best refers to the thing that the Greek word stauros referred to when it in fact referred to Roman crucifixion. 3) That word obviously is "cross". It is nothing more than the Latin word for the instrument used in Roman crucifixion (which generally contained a patibulum crossbeam), borrowed into French, and then borrowed into English. 4) Hence, the American Heritage dictionary defines "cross" first as "An upright post with a transverse piece near the top, upon which condemned persons were executed in ancient times". The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines "cross" first as "A structure consisting of an upright with a transverse beam used especially by the ancient Romans for execution ". That's the word used to refer specifically to the Roman cross in its typical form. 5) In translating the Greek and Latin classics, scholars regularly use "cross" to render stauros and crux when used as a device for execution (just read Livy, Plutarch, Cicero, Seneca, Suetonius, Plautus, Aristophanes, Josephus, etc.), and it is a general term referring to the instrument. The word is chosen on account of the device's function, not its shape which was variable and not necessarily apparent from context. 6) Since the gospels describe what corresponds as patibulum-bearing preceding the execution, it is most probable that Jesus' cross contained a patibulum; the evidence on many grounds indicate that the gospel authors pictured a two-beamed cross in the case of Jesus, whereas there is no good reason (other than saying we don't know for sure) to suppose that the cross consisted of a single pole. "Execution stake" is probably adequate as long as you allow that this stake probably had a crosspiece.
• 

  ecuador

  Reniaa, you have several misconceptions about Christian religions. Many have been very ably refuted. However, I want you to know that the main thing for me is whether or not a particular group (religion) is willing to allow the Bible to be their authority, or if the leaders are going to be the authority. Admittedly, many "Christian" groups claim to use the Bible as their authority, but in practice, the religion decides what the church will practice and believe. I believe we ought always to compare what our church believes and practices with the Bible, and when we see a difference, we should change the church's beliefs and practice, not change and twist what the Bible says to support those beliefs and practices. In my particular church, there is no head of the denomination who tells the rest what to do or believe, other than to follow what the scriptures say. We also recognize that there are many other groups that believe somewhat differently, but yet they are still followers of Christ, and as such, "Christians". As far as the idea of Hitler being a christian, he might have claimed that, but it is very obvious that he did not know what Christianity really is. Also, there were many true Christians who stood up to him, and went to prison or were killed for doing so. Have you not heard of Corrie Ten Boom?
• 

  mustang

  I can see your point but wouldn't the conviction goto lawyers and still have to be proven beyond doubt but I'm english is the process different to america

  Point of Law: CRIMINAL CASES require the "proven beyond doubt" test; CIVIL CASES do not, rather a preponderance of evidence is used. That is why CRIMINAL CASES require a unanimous verdict and CIVIL CASES use a majority formula, if tried by jury.

  I am trying to use restraint, here, but you make that difficult. This is NOT an attack, nor is it Legal advice: but you should stay away from Courts and even using Legal analogies. Your Legal knowledge is sadly lacking.

  Mustang
• 

  OUTLAW

  Reniaa..Where is the Apology from the WBT$ concerning the prediction of 1975?..Where is it it Reniaa?!..I want to see the Apology!!..Find it for me Reniaa!!..I want an answer to this post!..Show me the Apology Reniaa!!..Fred Franz publicly blamed the entire population of Jehovah`s Witness`s for nothing happening in 1975..He said Armageddon did not happen because Jehovah`s Witness`s expected it!..That`s not much of an apology..But..You say there is one!!..Where is it???!!!.......................................................A side note just for you..Did you know Rutherford tried making a deal with Hitler?............Ignore my post and I will repeat my questions.Just as I have done with you in the past..Answer deceitfully,lie,mislead or misdirect and I will expose you.Just as I have done with you in the past.....OUTLAW
• 

  caliber

  I'm in two minds about the date issue simply because they haven't predicted armegeddon, the dates could be a hangover of their adventist roots that needs weeding out

  So from this Reniaa quote it appears it's not the WT's fault about the (wrong dates ) it's those damned Adventist !

  
  

  Somebody said they were sick of just living in fear all the time I can understand it but if the alternative is.....

  29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? 30 And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? 31 I die every day—I mean that, brothers—just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32 If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,
  "Let us eat and drink,
  for tomorrow we die." [d] 33 Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character." 34 Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame.

  Why have you jumped from my question of dates to not living in fear because of not having proper doctrines?

  By the way there may be a hidden message for you here.. does it not say that those who do not believe these doctrines are

  BAD COMPANY not good for your character .. ( I however feel it is confusing and bad manners to jump subjects like I

  just did ...but it does serve to illusrate my point ! )

  But if you insist on changing topics all the time it... takes away focus.. causing confusion

  Somebody said they were sick of just living in fear all the time I can understand it but if the alternative is.....

  Instead of living in fear of a dateline have you ever heard of the fruitages of the spirit ?

  I like to think that love motivates me !

  So what have we talk in this circle of reasoning... dates to fear to doctrine.. to bad asssocation.. to love

  ONE subject at a time works best.

  By working with many subjects at a time is like... seeing individual pieces in a cross-word puzzle instead of the whole picture !

  I'm in two minds about the date issue

  This last quotes it the most honest statement I've ever heard you give ! ~Caliber
• 

  isaacaustin

  I'm in two minds about the date issue simply because they haven't predicted armegeddon, the dates could be a hangover of their adventist roots that needs weeding out

  So they did not come out of babylonian captivity in 1919???
• 

  reniaa

  hi caliber

  I was jumping from peoples question to question but this thread is just throwing to many subjects at me, 1/20+ is not really good odds but I have answered a little as my life allows and the original links are there for those who are interested.

  Isaac

  when I said apposing I missed an 'of 'out i meant you and I are in fairly opposite religions.

  now back to the dates I think I put up some evidence earlier in this thread showing that thousands of religions have predicted armegeddon and the second coming of Christ including all the major ones and so far it 0/0 on any being correct so do we throw tham all out as false prophets?

  I personally don't put much faith in dates because of knowing the bible says we won't know but some will be knowing enough to try and prepare us, I'm not going to pick and choose a faith based on dates but on a list of things that i've already mentioned things that concern living with God in our everyday lifes. not a god that conveniently lets me do all things the bible condemns. God doesn't like us making dates and thats understandable from the sounds of it many have been stumbled for this very reason but please understand, I am stumbled by religions that encourage warefare and immorality and drug use etc

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  Someone said you only want to save me, how can you save me? Do you know how to give me and my children everlasting life? as far as I know only Jesus and his father have the power to save anyone. All people on here can try and do is get me out of a faith they disaprove of, but my condition on removal is still a person who loves God and needs an expression to show it and for me as I've said before small niggling issues aside(i'm sorry but dates, whether rutherford or russel were deeply flawed men, or leadership is wrong despite the fact you all just voted a new president in but apparently you only disprove of religious leadership, and whether we are preaching EXACTLY the way paul did it, and if we can't we chouldn't bother is the consensous, these are niggling to me) Jehovahs witnesses are unique in so many of their teachings/doctrines, I can even see a time when they maybe the last faith strict on sexual morality.

  If you choke on the little things but swallow the larger sins what can you say.
• 

  caliber

  If you choke on the little things but swallow the larger sins what can you say.

  If you want me to understand the dates are little things I must agree with you... however the WT. has in the past

  made BIG things of dates and time lines...It has caused great hurt.. loss of jobs etc...... no children (1975)

  Many couples were spiritually castrated and spiritually barren due to this . ~Cal