Defence of watchtower society Links

reniaa

I thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but I think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum. I was recently sent a full message containing Mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points. Those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet. Also this is not WTs santioned info just the concerned research results of people who defend the WT on the internet.

607....

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/607/

NGO

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-...

child abuse

http://thirdwitness.com/childabuse/default.ht...

God's name

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

and other related articals on various subjects........

http://ewatchman-exposed.co.uk/research/read....

http://thetruthaboutthetruthaboutthetruth.blo...

http://ewatchman-exposed.co.uk/research/read....

http://ewatchman-exposed.co.uk/research/read....

http://ewatchman-exposed.co.uk/research/read....

http://thetruthaboutthetruthaboutthetruth.blo...

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/118775/35....

I do not want to give an oponion either in support or against of these they are not of my original research but someone called thirdwitness who is a defender of wt but like I said these are alternate options if you wish to read, in a court of law we hear both sides before accusing and it is fair that if internet is used for info against it should also be used for the oposite too.

Reniaa

avishai

Renaiia, there are "Opinions" and there are facts. OK? Their rampant covering up of child molestation is a FACT, I know this from firsthand experience, multiple cong.s. The UN thing is a FACT. See if you can find the resolution/pledge every jw took @ I believe the 1967 or 1968 convention. Once you read that, among other things, there is NO WAY to rationalize the FACTS about the UN.

avishai

It ain't bias if they're full of shit and you know it. Check out his post on child molesting. She did'nt post it right, so you have to go to his homepage.

asilentone

at Reniaa

Doug Mason

Reniaa,

In 2 Timothy 3, Paul was talking about his own time, not ours.

Otherwise, what would be the point of giving this information to Timothy??

Doug

carla

I think the Timothy script describes jw's quite well.

2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money (Brooklyn, open your books & properties to the public) , boastful (jw's LOVE to boast about how wonderful they are, hours, only they......), proud (they are PROUD and make no bones about it) , abusive ( child abuse, spiritual abuse, physical abuse, mental abuses, etc.), disobedient to their parents (shunning), ungrateful (not appreciative when taking from non jw society blood, or funds, welfare,etc.), unholy (needs no explanation there!), 3 without love (they have no comprehension of love in the normal sense), unforgiving (again shunning and minor so called 'sins), slanderous,( they slander anyone who leaves, the churches, basically anybody who is not a jw) without self-control (no self control only wt control in all matters), brutal (aside from physical & sexual abuses, the mental abuses and treatment of ex jw family members is quite brutal), not lovers of the good (they do not even see the 'good' in others or the good others do, how could they love then?)

mustang

Specifically on the UN: it will take time to review that material, but I "grew up" in the JW's in the 50's, 60's, left in the 70's. I saw things from inside, including the what CO's & DO's said and did and were told from Bethel etc.

We were taught that any traffic with the UN was wrong. I knew enough to know that any individual JW that wanted to push for UN alignments was doomed and would be shown no mercy. There was always the remote possibility that anything could be overruled on a "do what I say" basis by someone above you, but other than that UN affiliation was absolute poison.

I recollect the Resolution Avishai mentioned and believe that was one we passed out door-door. That would indeed be a good one to look up in certain specialized archives.

I also was privy to private internal documents that no non-witness would ever see and at least one that only male pioneers would ever see. There were legal manuals that were circulated on "need to know" basis. Some of these had very dogmatic statements. Their "flavor" does not go along with cooperation with the worlds organizations.

While I doubt that things changed after I left (mid-70's), if they did, I did not hear about that.

What bothers people here is the hypocrisy. With the totally black and white

(NO ROOM FOR MISTAKES) , NO COMPROMISE attitude that was used and drilled into us, ANY SUCH INTERCOURSE WITH THE UN AUTHORITIES WOULD HAVE BEEN PURE TREASON. THERE IS NO WAY THAT IT COULD EVER BE JUSTIFIED, GIVEN THE ATTITUDES OF PRE 1975.

That hypocrisy is what is the issue here, not some mealy-mouthed "we never said it" or "we didn't mean it" revisionist lie.

The UN business is historically indefensible.

Mustang

dozy

I think there is a tendency on ex-witnesses to overstate their case in certain areas. I’m also of the view that the UN situation was just a somewhat naive mistake. As far as the paedophile situation is concerned , even Ray Franz doesn’t buy into the wild “systematic cover-up” allegations & the WTS have certainly made advances in handling these case , as has society in general. As a whole , Jws have better morals than “worldly” people in general , though there will always be bad apples.

Having said that , having read a lot of information on 607 , it just seems completely untenable to accept. As the WTS have admitted (eg in the “Kingdom Come” book) , there isn’t any secular evidence to support the date. Even the biblical evidence is very weak & easily interpreted in different ways. I’m sure that the WTS would love to wriggle out of it , but it would destroy the 1914 foundation teaching.

For me , the issue isn’t whether on a case by case basis to discover whether there WTS teachings are right or wrong. Certainly there is scope to defend individual WTS teachings , but for me the essential task is to determine whether the “Faithful & discreet slave / GB / WTS” is , as they continually claim , “God’s sole spirit directed channel“. Do they show true “honesty and candour” , as prophets of old did in bible times (such as was discussed this week in the book study? Have they honestly admitted all their prophecies in God's name come true? Or do they consistently , week after week in the literature , glorify & exalt themselves - week after week describing themselves (in the guise of a third party endorsement) as “much loved” ,”appreciated” , “loyal” etc.

If after an honest review of WTS history you come to the conclusion that God is truly working through nine old(ish) men in Brooklyn & that the 6.5 billion people who don’t recognise this will shortly be annihilated then truly this is the religion to be associated with. If not , then it does put you (and me) in a difficult situation.