Is it too late?

by Hikaru 42 Replies latest jw friends

  • 2112

    Please be assured we are trying to help, as most of us have been in your shoes in some form or another. The "unforgivable sin" would be to speak agingt the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:31-32).

    Look at it this way if you are truly concerned weather or not you have committed the unforgivable sin, then you have not done it. Ynot hit the nail on the head, build your relationship with Jehovah and Jesus, that is what is important. If you really believe the WT is the way to g then far be it for me to stop you from returning, all I ask is that you do it for the right reason, that you love God, not because you are afraid of the end. My friend you could die in a car accedent today (I hope that never happens) so whather "the end" is close or 100 years from now makes no difference.

    Jehovah is said to be a loving God, and a loving God would want you to be happy, and to serve him out of love not out of fear of being distroyed.

    Please think about what everyone says here, you don't have to believe it all but again remember we are trying to help. Take care

  • jgnat

    Some more scriptures.

    Jesus told Peter to forgive a man "seventy times seven". If this is man's requirement, how much more God's? (Matthew 18:21-22)

    God does not withhold his promises. He freely gives. Think how a parent loves and forgives their child over and over again. God does even more so. (Matthew 7:7-11)

  • Robdar
    Is it too late to start again? Or did I choose my fate when I said that?

    The Bible doesn't really say what the unforgiveable sin is. I think it is left open ended in order to get us to think, to ponder.

    What you did isn't a sin. I promise it isn't that big a deal. The big deal here, and I think you missed it, is that your boyfriend asked you to prove that you loved him. This is a guy you dated via the internet. I hardly think he is in a position to ask you to prove anything. There are other red flags but you will eventually figure them out without a sermon from me.

    Now, I've answered your question. Go live your life, love it.

  • WTWizard

    First, I don't believe anything is imminent. They are planning changes including sale of real estate through the year 2020, which they wouldn't be wasting their time on if they really believe the Great Tribulation was imminent. They will do all they can to present the front that it is coming within a few months, but with the eral estate sales planned through 2020, I would bet you have at least that long (and probably much longer--they have been wrong for 130 years already).

    Second, I would research the religion. Use independent sources, since any scam can appear to be the truth if you only use their official sources. Yes, it means doing your own thinking. Get a Bible from the free market (yes, you will have to pay some $30 or 40, but it will be a more accurate translation and you do not support the Worldwide Pedophile Defense Fund.

    Additionally, ask where the religion creates problems where none needed to exist. You will have to be completely honest, since it is easy to claim that the problems were necessary. With every rule, ask why obedience is good for self and/or society or disobedience is bad for self or society. Try to find incidents where the religion has initiated the use of force, threat of force (the death at Armageddon comes to mind here), or fraud to get people in or to make them stay in. And, what happens if you have a disagreement with the religion that can be backed up on your side using their own Bible, where the leaders are wrong. You are still required to believe and teach the wrong viewpoint until they change it, even if you can prove them wrong using their own Bible!

    Maybe the question should have been "Is it too late to leave?".

  • leavingwt

    If your desire is to return to Jehovah, you'll want to sign off of this forum and never return. According to their theology, you're bringing demons into your home by reading these very words.

    I'm sorry you're in a state of fear. I recall being in the same state in 1989, and so I got baptized. I believed then that if Armageddon came and I was not baptized, I my throat would be slit by Jesus Christ and the birds would eat my carcass. I was 15 years old. They dunked me.

    Once I examined the history of not only Watchtower, but several other Apocalyptic Millennarian groups, I lost all fear of Armageddon. Keep in mind that for more than 100 years, there has been a publishing company in Brooklyn telling people that Armageddon is "just around the corner". People have been putting their lives on hold, not marrying, not having kids, not educating themselves, not saving for retirement, because they honestly believed that Armageddon was at best, a few years off. Now, think about the fact that tens of thousands of Witnesses have died from old age, waiting for Armageddon.

    It boils down to this: Jesus said that nobody knows the day or the hour. Further, at Luke 21:8, he warned us that some would say that "the due time has approached". He commanded us NOT to follow such ones.

    From the Shawshank Redemption: "Either get busy living, or get busy dying."

    The choice is yours. Below is some reading material about Apocalyptic Millennialism. JWs are one of many groups with these teachings. They are not special, in this regard.

    Apocalyptic millennialism, for all its dangers, offers immense rewards: believers find themselves at the center of the ultimate universal drama and their every act has cosmic significance. Apocalyptic believers become semiotically aroused (if not semiotically promiscuous), finding cosmic messages in the smallest incident, in every coincidence. Moreover, they can almost taste the fulfillment of their burning desire to see justice done — the good lavishly rewarded, the evil savagely punished. Finally the approach of the endtimes and the promise of a new world liberates believers from all earthly inhibitions: the fear of future punishment by those who now hold power vanishes, and a wide range of repressed feelings — sexual, emotional, violent — burst forth. Such a combination proves irresistible to many: millennial hope possesses believers.


    Here's your answer "straight from the horse's mouth":

    *** g94 11/8 pp. 18-20 Have I Committed the Unforgivable Sin? ***

    Young People Ask . . .

    Have I Committed the Unforgivable Sin?

    “I HAD never felt so downhearted. I no longer had any self-respect, and I thought that God would never forgive me.”—Marco.

    “I was very discouraged. Guilt overshadowed my heart. I thought that I had committed some unforgivable errors.”—Alberto.

    “There is no man that does not sin,” says the Bible. (1 Kings 8:46) But sometimes a youth may feel that he has gone beyond making a simple mistake. Like Marco and Alberto, he may be oppressed by an unrelenting sense of guilt. He may feel that what he has done is so vile, so wicked, that God can never forgive him.

    What if feelings like this afflict you? Take heart. Your situation is far from hopeless.

    Why Our Conscience Pains Us

    It’s only natural to feel bad when you’ve made a foolish mistake. We are all born with the faculty the Bible calls “conscience.” It is an inward sense of right and wrong, an internal alarm that usually sounds when we do something bad. (Romans 2:14, 15) Consider King David, for example. He committed adultery with another man’s wife. Later, he had her husband, Uriah, sent to a certain death. (2 Samuel 11:2-17) The effect on David?

    “Day and night [God’s] hand was heavy upon me,” admitted David. Yes, he felt the weight of divine disapproval. David also said: “There is no peace in my bones on account of my sin. For my own errors have passed over my head; like a heavy load they are too heavy for me. . . . All day long I have walked about sad.” (Psalm 32:4; 38:3-6) David’s conscience continued to afflict him until he was moved to take positive action and repent of his error.

    In a similar way, if you have been educated by Christian parents and you stray from the Bible’s standards, you will feel bad. This feeling of remorse is normal, healthy. It can induce a person to correct himself or seek help before a wrong becomes an ingrained habit. On the other hand, a person who persists in sin damages his conscience. In time it becomes insensitive, like seared skin. (1 Timothy 4:2) Moral corruption is sure to follow.—Galatians 6:7, 8.

    Godly Sadness

    Not surprisingly, then, the Bible speaks of “a sin that does incur death.” (1 John 5:16; compare Matthew 12:31.) Such a sin is not merely a weakness of the flesh. It is committed deliberately, obstinately, stubbornly. It is not so much the sin itself as it is the heart condition of the sinner that makes such a sin unforgivable.

    The fact that you feel hurt and distressed over your misconduct, however, indicates that you have not committed an unforgivable sin. The Bible says that “sadness in a godly way makes for repentance to salvation.” (2 Corinthians 7:10) Indeed, note the exhortation given at James 4:8-10: “Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you indecisive ones. Give way to misery and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned into mourning, and your joy into dejection. Humble yourselves in the eyes of Jehovah, and he will exalt you.”

    True, the wrong may be a very serious one. Young Julie, for example, got involved in necking and petting with a boyfriend. “I felt very guilty at first,” she confesses, “but as time went on, I got used to it. It didn’t bother my conscience so much.” In time, unclean acts escalated to the point of sexual intercourse. “I felt miserable,” says Julie. “My conscience weakened to the point where it happened several times.”

    Is such a situation hopeless? Not necessarily. What about Manasseh, one of the kings of Judah? He committed extremely serious sins, including spiritism and child sacrifice. Yet, God pardoned him on account of his sincere repentance. (2 Chronicles 33:10-13) What about King David? Having repented of his wicked acts, he found Jehovah to be a God who is “good and ready to forgive.”—Psalm 86:5.

    Christians today have this assurance: “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9) To whom should one make this confession? Primarily, to Jehovah God. “Before him pour out your heart.” (Psalm 32:5; 62:8) You may find it helpful to read David’s contrite confession in Psalm 51.

    Additionally, the Bible urges Christians who have fallen into serious sin to speak with the congregation elders. (James 5:14, 15) Their earnest counsel and prayers can help you to reestablish your relationship with God and to regain a clean conscience. They can discern the difference between weakness and wickedness. They should also see to it that you get the help needed in order to avoid repeating your error. Julie, having taken this courageous step herself, recommends: “I tried ‘reproving myself’ and even thought it worked to an extent. But after a year I knew how wrong I was. You can’t clear up serious problems without help from the elders.”

    Guilt Over Minor Sins

    Sometimes, though, a youth “takes some false step before he is aware of it.” (Galatians 6:1) Or he or she allows a fleshly compulsion to take over. A youth in this situation may suffer deep feelings of guilt—perhaps more guilt than the wrong actually merits. Needless anguish results. Such profound guilt feelings can be the result of a healthy but overly sensitive conscience. (Romans 14:1, 2) Remember, when we sin “we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one.”—1 John 2:1, 2.

    Consider, again, the case of young Marco, quoted in our introduction. This young Christian was convinced that he had committed an unforgivable sin. He used to say to himself: ‘I know Bible principles so well, yet I can’t stop sinning!’ His sin? The problem of masturbation. ‘How can God forgive me if I can’t break the habit?’ Marco would reason. Alberto, who similarly had bouts with self-abuse, said: “I felt the guilt deep down inside because I couldn’t free myself of the sin.”

    Masturbation is an unclean habit. (2 Corinthians 7:1) However, the Bible does not class it with serious sins such as fornication. In fact, it does not mention it at all. Therefore, a lapse into masturbation would hardly be unforgivable. Viewing it as if it were beyond forgiveness could actually be dangerous; a youth might reason that there is little point in trying to overcome the problem. But Bible principles indicate that a Christian should put forth strenuous efforts to fight this habit. (Colossians 3:5) Jehovah knows that “we all stumble many times.” (James 3:2) If a relapse occurs, a youth need not feel condemned.

    The same is true of other missteps and errors. Jehovah does not require that we punish ourselves with excessive guilt. Rather, he is pleased when we take steps to correct the problem.—2 Corinthians 7:11; 1 John 3:19, 20.

    Sources of Help and Comfort

    Likely, though, you will need personal assistance in doing so. God-fearing parents can often do much to help and support their children. And the Christian congregation offers other means of support. Marco recalls: “The thing that really helped me was a conversation with an elder. I had to have courage to open up and tell him my most intimate thoughts. But he inspired confidence, so I asked his advice.” Alberto, too, sought advice from an elder. “I can’t forget his encouraging counsel,” says Alberto. “He told me that when he was young, he also had the same problem. I would never have believed it. I listened to him with great appreciation for his honesty.” With such help and support, Marco and Alberto overcame their problems. Both presently serve in positions of responsibility in their respective congregations.

    Fervent prayer is another aid. Like David, you can pray for “a pure heart” and “a new spirit, a steadfast one.” (Psalm 51:10) Reading God’s Word is another source of comfort. For example, you may find it encouraging to learn that the apostle Paul also had internal conflicts. He admitted: “When I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me.” (Romans 7:21) Paul succeeded in keeping his wrong tendencies under control. So can you. You may find it particularly comforting to read the psalms, especially those dealing with God’s forgiveness, such as Psalms 25, 86, and 103.

    In any event, avoid withdrawing into yourself and letting yourself be dominated by pessimism. (Proverbs 18:1) Fully avail yourself of Jehovah’s mercy. Remember, he ‘forgives in a large way’ on the basis of Jesus’ ransom sacrifice. (Isaiah 55:7; Matthew 20:28) Do not minimize your errors, but do not conclude that God cannot forgive you either. Strengthen your faith and your determination to serve him. (Philippians 4:13) In time you will come to have peace of mind and the deep inner joy of knowing that you have been forgiven.—Compare Psalm 32:1.


    Some of the names have been changed.

    Helpful suggestions are given in chapters 25 and 26 of the book Questions Young People Ask: Answers That Work, published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.

    [Picture on page 19]

    Talking things over with a qualified Christian can give you a new perspective on matters

  • MeneMene

    I wanted to suggest that you read a book I found very comforting - "The Sign of the Last Days When?" by Carl Olof Jonsson.

    I will be happy to loan you my copy if you will read it. You can send me your mailing address via PM and I will mail it to you or you can join us at the next X-JW Meetup in Glendale and I'll bring it for you. (Thursday, Sept 18 is the next meeting)

    The website for the Meetup group is -

  • Eyes Open
    Eyes Open

    Hi Hikaru,

    I don't think you have committed the unforgivable sin biblically. I would suggest that it's never too late to do what one believes is right, and that it's not healthy to base decisions like this on fear. God wouldn't want you to serve him as part of any group just because your scared that if you don't he will kill you.

    Deciding what is the right thing to do in an open and honest fashion, without rushing, is important. If God were to see that you are taking the time to research the bible and its message he is hardly going to crush you just because you hadn't committed yourself to one brand of organised religion. With this in mind, can I recommend you a book? It's written by a scholar and is intended to correct misconceptions of what the literature in the bible really is.

    It's called "How to Read the Bible: History, Prophecy, Literature -- Why Modern Readers Need to Know the Difference, and What It Means for Faith Today" and is written by Steven L. McKenzie, a scholar of Hebrew. In it you will learn things that many apocalyptic bible groups, such as Jehovah's Witnesses and many others, do not wish you to know, because they rely on people taking their word for things whlist pretending that their research is trustworthy. Once you have read the book, which has a section on apocalyptica, you will be in a far better position to decide on how to worship. I cannot emphasise enough that this small investment will save you so much.

    The doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses is not original; it is derived from Seventh Day Adventism, which is derived from the teachings of a man called William Miller. Research how Miller came up with his interpretations, and what he eventually acknowledged.

    Final thought: if something's worth doing, it's worth doing properly, so don't let anyone fear or guilt you into rushing anything. All the best, and feel free to post back if you like.

  • mrsjones5

    I wonder if she'll be back. Apparently we didn't respond the way she wanted and she left in a snit. Or maybe she's lurking and learning a bit. One can hope.


  • still_in74

    According to the Watchtower the unforgivable sin is working against the Holy Spirit. This would mean not just resisting Jehovah & his arrangement but actually working to impede its progress/success.

    By WT definition many here are guilty of that sin, you however do not meet that criteria by your sin.

    Can you imagine murdering a person and yet Jehovah can still forgive you? Peter denied Jesus out of fear, you denied Jehovah out of fear of losing your love. Look into your heart and ask yourself what you really want. Do you want forgiveness? Truly ask Jehovah for forgiveness and he will forgive you. Pray that you can truly come to know him and never be willing to sacrifice your relationship with Him for any human.


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