What makes someone so sure...

by loosie 68 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  cognizant dissident

  Here's the link to a tragic story of a beautiful 16 year old girl who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and was hit by a drunk driver. The story is remarkably similiar to yours. She was trapped and the firefighters couldn't free her and had to watch her burn alive. They thought they were removing a corpse from the car and then found a pulse. Her entire body was burned and she was not expected to live.

  Apparently the firefighter was tormented with nightmares and guilt after the accident. I'm sure he would have liked to be able to feel good about saving that girl.

  http://www.helpjacqui.com/home.htm

  It just doesn't make sense that God allows some innocent children to be saved and others to suffer a life of terrible torment. It makes more sense that these are random events or unforseen accidents and that sometimes people die horribly and other times they are lucky enough to live next door to a neighbour who is trained in EMT and happned to be taking out the trash at that moment. The randomness and unfairness of life and of pain and suffering is a very hard reality for humans to accept. So they try to "find meaning" in such events that make it easier to bear psychologically.

  For instance, when my son was little, I worried every day that something bad was going to happen to him when he played outside. I had quite the imagination. When something bad did happen to him, I could have said, "I knew it, I had a premonition that something bad was going to happen to him today.!" Technically, it is true. However, I had that premonition every day and 99.9% of the time, it didn't happen. We tend to ignore those times because nothing noteworthy makes them stick in our memories. The law of probability and statistics show that sooner or later something bad will befall most of us in our lifetime. Maybe 50% of the time we will be lucky and something or someone will save us and the other 50% of the time we are shit out of luck!

  Just as there is no reason to believe that God causes innocent people to suffer horribly, there is no reason to believe that he saves other people from harm. We can't have it both ways, saying God is responsible for all the good in the world but not for any of the evil. If he exists and created everything and is omniscient, then he is responsible for everything.
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  loosie

  Once I was in the car with my daughter around 10pm. We came to this intersection it was a green light for to turn. for some reason I didn't turn. I stopped. 4 seconds later a car ran the red light. They would have hit us had I turned.

  When I told this story to my friend, she said god didn't let me turn left. I said well what about the accidents that did occur that night ho wcome he didn't save those people? She said god is a busy man.

  I say it was my subconscience or universal conscienceness, or possibly my son's spirit looking out for us.
• 

  StAnn

  Loosie, perhaps you saw movement via peripheral vision and your subconscious caused you to hesitate. Thank goodness you didn't turn!

  Sometimes I think mothers have a "sixth sense" about things, we're so protective of our babies.
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  StAnn

  COG--I'm not trying to convert you to my way of thinking. I was simply answering Loosie's original question.

  It's really a strange thing. I know that my experience changed me forever. I have absolutely no doubts as to its origin. I also don't expect any one else to believe me unless they have experienced something like that. I'm sure it seems incredulous to outsiders.

  Keep in mind, something you don't know, I was raped and beaten many years previous to this. No one intervened, no one saved me. But it never occurred to me to be angry with God for sending me to help that little boy when God hadn't saved me years before. You'd think I'd be mad. It just wasn't like that. I guess you had to be there.

  For me, it really does go back to free will.

  Re: certainty, it's kinda like when I met my husband, I knew he was the one. I find marriage to be very difficult (he's difficult to get along with, LOL!) but I still know, without a doubt, that he's the one and it never occurs to me to leave. The experience with the little boy, I had the same certainty about it. Can't explain. It's just the way it is.

  StAnn
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  cognizant dissident

  I'm not trying to take "your experience" away from you either StAnn. Really, all of our experiences are "subjective" and colored by our own perceptions and beliefs.. It is when we try to reach some sort of consensus with others about what is essentially a subjective experience that we get into arguments/debates.

  I figured it was OK to comment as the topic was thrown out for discussion. My purpose is only to offer plausible alternative explanations for others to consider, not to deny your personal experience.

  Cog.
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  StAnn

  I figured it was OK to comment as the topic was thrown out for discussion.

  Exactly. That's what's so nice about being out of the Borg. We all have different world views and IT'S OKAY. Freedom!
• 

  SusanHere

  This is the best explanation I can come up with off the top of my head.

  I believe there are things in this world that we don't want to talk about. Namely, evil, sin, and free will. I do believe there is a devil and he causes evil to happen in the world. People get to choose to do evil or to do good. Unfortunately, if God intervened every time someone did something evil to someone else, then He would be taking away the free will and the choice from the one doing evil. So, horrible as it sounds, if we don't want to be automatons with every move controlled by God, i.e., if we want to be able to have free will, we have to know that some people are going to make poor choices that affect others negatively.

  Evil exists. I can't look around my world and think it doesn't. Good exists. I can't look around my world and think it doesn't. God gave the angels free will and some of them abused it. God gave humans free will and some of them abuse it. It's the way things are. It sucks, but it's the way things are. IMO.

  StAnn

  Beautifully put, StAnn. I couldn't agree more. There are those who consider this utter nonsense, as many on this thread have already expressed. That's their right, the same as it's my right to believe your words to be 100% on the money.

  A lot of this is just where we are in our life's journey. Everyone is in a different place. Our perspectives vary widely, yet so many refuse to understand why everyone doesn't see things exactly as we do ourselves. That expectation make no sense at all. Never has, never will.

  I saw the clear marks of truth in your story, and have more than one very similar experience of my own that could add weight to your story. No real point though as the same ones who understood yours would understand mine and those who mocked yours would do the same to mine. Just know that you are not alone and that you are believed.

  To hear a voice like you did is the rarest form of the Holy Ghost guiding someone and almost always is when someone is -- or is about to become -- in a life-threatening situation and immediate, urgent action is needed. One time in my case that audible voice said only one word. I stopped cold, not sure who spoke to me. The same voice spoke again, exactly as before.

  Sometimes one word is all that's needed. Sometimes two or three words. For sure, there are never any long, elaborate instructions given in these cases. Only the barest of words. No details. You didn't need more. I didn't need more. Like you I knew for a fact who had spoken and I will never doubt that to my dying day.

  Thank you for sharing your story.

  SusanHere
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  PrimateDave

  I think StAnn understood my first post, but I would like to repeat for the benefit of anyone else who might have misunderstood my point:
  
  I do not for one moment doubt her experience. I believe she heard a voice, and that voice motivated her to save a life.
  
  What I do think is widely open for interpretation is how this is possible. Granted, maybe she is right, and God spoke to her. I am definitely open to the possibilities. I may be non-theist at this point, but I am still learning more every day. It still doesn't make sense to me with my understanding of what "god" is supposed to be, but I am still on that road, so to speak.
  
  What I hope that the Christians on this board will understand is that these kind of experiences are universal among humankind regardless of religion, faith, or spiritual practice. In other words, "god," whatever it may be, doesn't care what religion you belong to if any at all.
  
  Dave
• 

  StAnn

  these kind of experiences are universal among humankind regardless of religion, faith, or spiritual practice

  Dave, I'm sure that is true. And I'd bet most of the christians on the board recognize that God loves all of us WHERE WE ARE. I can't believe for a moment that, had that child been buddhist or sikh, that God wouldn't have intervened.

  Another nice thing about not being a JW: your God doesn't have to be so narrow and cold.