One Reason Why I Worship the God of the Bible

by snowbird 193 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

Perry

Yes, I know what you mean 10p . How JW's treated others was a big deal for me. It got to the point where I felt like I was choking at the Kingdom Hall. I knew that was simply too hostile of an environment for me to personally function in. I was amazed that so many seemed to be OK with the quality of life there for decades after decades.
I was active for 8 years. Age 23 to 31. I knew it was all nonsense at at 7 though. I joined at age 23 not because I was a 4th generation Witness, but because I wanted to stop sinning (a least have a much firmer grip on it) and to make friends with God. I believed that I experienced a real conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit when I was baptized as a Witness. However, I noticed that because I had no faith in the sin atoning sacrifice of Jesus FOR ME (not just Adam), over the years as a JW, I was sinning more not less. This, and with the things you mentioned in your experience caused me to abandon the Watchtower as an instrument for living. I'm very practical..... it just didn't work.
Like you, I became agnostic/atheist for several years. It seems to be an effortless transition, and is so for many EX-JW's I think. Several months ago I composed some similarities between JW's and atheists. I never posted this before. Some points are more applicable than others. Perhaps some might find this interesting. When I started to compose it I expected to find just a few similarities. It never occured to me just how anti-Christian our former religion was.
Perry

JW Similarity with Atheism
1. JW: Does Not Worship Jesus
Atheist: Does Not Worship Jesus
Christian: Worships Jesus
2. JW: Does Not Pray to Jesus
Atheist: Does Not Pray to Jesus
Christian: Prays to Jesus
3. JW: Rejects Jesus offer at the Memorial
Atheist: Rejects Jesus offer
Christian: Accepts Jesus offer
4. JW: Doesn’t accept literal creation account
Atheist: Doesn’t accept literal creation account
Christian: Many accept literal creation account
5. JW: Gets knowledge of “good and bad” from human authority - WT
Atheist: Gets knowledge of “good and bad” from human authority – social conditioning
Christian: Gets knowledge of good and bad from God - Indwelling Holy Spirit
6. JW: New Testament wasn’t written for the average JW
Atheist: New Testament wasn’t written for them
Christian: New Testament was written for “whosoever”
7. JW: Hates their enemies
Atheist: Hates their enemies
Christian: Can Supernaturally Love their enemies
8. JW: Doesn’t need a personal Savior (growing into perfection)
Atheist: Doesn’t need a personal Savior (sin doesn’t exist, only “mistakes”)
Christian: Needs a personal Savior (God’s justice demands punishment of ALL sin)
9. JW: Individual sin is not punished
Atheist: Individual sin is not punished
Christian: YOUR sin is punished either on the Cross or in Hell and eventually the lake of fire. - your choice
10. JW: Jesus was a man
Atheist: Jesus was a man
Christian: Jesus was fully God and fully man
11. JW: Death is the end of our consciousness
Atheist: Death is the end of our consciousness
Christian: Spirit survives death and “returns”
12. JW: Human Government is not from God
Atheist: Human Government is not from God
Christian: Human Government ordained by God until the Lord’s return
13. JW: Rights come from GB (JW government)
Atheist: Rights come from secular government
Christian: Certain rights are inherent to our species, which is in God’s image.
14. JW: Must protect their rights
Atheist: Must protect their rights
Christian: Must surrender their rights to Jesus
15. JW: Compares themselves to others
Atheist: Compares themselves to others
Christian: Compares themselves to Jesus
16. JW: Causing medical death OK (blood policy)
Atheist: Causing medical death OK (abortion)
Christian: Causing medical death is murder
17. JW: Men choose God
Atheist: Men choose God
Christian: God chooses men
18. JW: Eternal Life comes from knowledge – spin on John 17:3
Atheist: Quality Life comes from knowledge
Christian: Both eternal and quality Life come from Jesus
19. JW: Gifts of the Spirit don’t exist now
Atheist: Gifts of the Spirit don’t exist
Christian: Gifts of the Spirit exist
20. JW: Born again Christians are despised
Atheist: Born again Christians are despised
Christian: Born again Christians are cherished
21. JW: God doesn’t speak to individuals
Atheist: God doesn’t speak to individuals
Christian: God speaks to individuals
22. JW: God is personally far away
Atheist: God is even farther
Christian: God is near - omnipresent
23. JW: Holy Spirit does not inhabit people
Atheist: Holy Spirit does not inhabit people
Christian: Holy Spirit inhabits His “temple” - hearts of believers
24. JW: Has reason to fear death
Atheist: Has reason to fear death
Christian: No reason to fear death
25. JW: Death guaranteed
Atheist: Death guaranteed
Christian: Death conquered - Already “passed over from death to LIFE”
26. JW: Morality is what the WT (the group) says it is
Atheist: Morality is what society (the group) says it is
Christian: Morality is what God says it is
27. JW: Are not Christ’s brothers
Atheist: Are not Christ’s brothers
Christian: Christ’s brothers
28 JW: Disobeys command to eat “flesh” & drink Christ’s “blood”
Atheist: Disobeys command to eat “flesh” & drink Christ’s “blood”
Christian: Obedient to command to eat “flesh” & drink Christ’s “blood”
30. JW: People are basically good
Atheist: People are basically good
Christian: People are basically bad – they have a sin nature and need a Savior to avoid judgment
31. JW: Military viewed negatively
Atheist: Many seem to view military negatively
Christian: Military viewed as a positive for countries and ordained by God
32. JW: Creating a utopia –spiritual paradise
Atheist: Creating a utopia – social paradise
Christian: Neither live in, nor can achieve a utopia apart from Christ
33. JW: Truth is revealed apart from God (GB)
Atheist: Truth is revealed apart from God (science)
Christian: Truth is revealed by God
34. JW: Individual revelation does not happen
Atheist: Individual revelation does not happen
Christian: Revelation happens
36. JW: Human Government not ordained by God
Atheist: Human Government not ordained by God
Christian: Human Government ordained by God
37. JW: Identity based on works
Atheist: Identity based on works
Christian: Identity based on Divine Heredity when born again
38. JW: Are not sons of God
Atheist: Are not sons of God
Christian: Are the Sons of God
39. JW: Death is the end of accountability
Atheist: Death is the end of accountability
Christian: Death is the beginning of YOUR accountability
40. JW: God is not in control of this world - the devil is
Atheist: God is not in control of this world – socio-political conditioners are
Christian: God is in total control
41. JW: Jesus cannot know the beginning and the end of things
Atheist: Jesus cannot know the beginning and the end of things
Christian: Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega knowing the beginning and the end.
42. JW: Jesus is not Lord
Atheist: Jesus is not Lord
Christian: Jesus is Lord
43. JW: The elect basically do not exist (most all have died)
Atheist: The elect do not exist
Christian: The elect are everywhere, at every level of society
44. JW: Are suspicious of Christians
Atheist: Are suspicious of Christians
Christian: Are comfortable with Christians
45. JW: Blames religion for war
Atheist: Blames religion for war
Christian: Blames sin for war
46. JW: God is not the proper source of education – WT is
Atheist: God is not the proper source of education – State is
Christian: God is the proper Source of all education
47. JW: Earth is Home
Atheist: Earth is Home
Christian: Wherever is Jesus, … is Home
48. JW: Holy Spirit doesn’t exist as a person
Atheist: Holy Spirit doesn’t exist
Christian: The Personality of the Holy Spirit indwells the believer
49. JW: Have not yet made peace with God through Christ
Atheist: Have not yet made peace with God through Christ
Christian: Are no longer enemies of God, made peace through Christ crucified
50. JW: We are not evil; Evil is outside of a person and impacts him
Atheist: We are not evil; If there is evil at all, it is outside him and inhibits man's good
Christian: We are evil by nature exacerbated by outside influences
51. JW: Has declared himself righteous - by association
Atheist: Has declared himself righteous – by autonomy
Christian: Has declared himself GUILTY
52. JW: Do not like being compared with atheists
Atheist: Do not like being compared with JW’s
Christian: Apart from Christ, it doesn’t really matter who you’re compared with
53. JW’s: Truth changes
Atheist: Truth changes
Christian: Truth is immutable
54. JW’s: Laws are external to human nature
Atheist: Laws are external to human nature
Christian: Laws are inherent to the new nature, written on the heart
55. JW’s: Some personal value derived from position in Society
Atheist: Some personal value derived from position in society
Christian: Personal value equal to God’s Son irregardless of social position
56. JW’s: Life’s meaning provided by leaders of WT Society
Atheist: Life’s meaning provided by self and leaders of society
Christian: Life’s meaning provided by God
57. JW’s: Slave to sin
Atheist: Slave to Sin
Christian: No longer slave to sin
58. JW’s: Seeks to save himself
Atheist: Seeks to save himself
Christian: Seeks to lose himself
59. JW’s: Getting enough is never enough
Atheist: Getting enough is never enough
Christian: Christ is always enough
60. JW’s: Seeks happiness
Atheist: Seeks happiness
Christian: Experiences joy and peace as supernatural gifts
61. JW’s: Expecting all others to die at Armageddon
Atheists: Expecting all to die by natural causes
Christian: Expecting others to live by means of Christ
62. JW’s: Takes credit for his good things
Atheist: Takes credit for his good things
Christian: Gives God credit for his good things
63. JW’s: Thinks there is no Judgment Day
Atheist: Thinks there is no Judgment Day
Christian: “it is appointed unto men once to die, then judgment
--John15
FACT:
The majority of former Jehovah's Witnesses are agnostic or atheist
• Now you know why.
• They had very little real change to make.
• They just switched “religions” and creeds
TRUTH:
• The universe cannot be proven to be self-existing
• Atheism must be taught; it is not innate as belief in God is.
• It requires faith and is a religion.
• Life and moral truth are ultimately meaningless if we are alone in the universe.
• “The heavens themselves declare the glory of God”
• “Therefore, they are without excuse.”
hamilcarr

Arbitrary classification. Neither atheists nor christians form clear-cut groups.
To give only two examples:
-the majority of christians (eg. apostolic churches) don't accept literal creation account
-a significant group of libertarian or anarchist atheists would passionately reject the notion that rights come from the government
Many objections could be added.
snowbird

Hmmm ... I see this baby hasn't been put to bed yet.
As I haven't been schooled in philosopy or rhetoric, I realize that my logic may be flawed, but my faith in the God of the Bible isn't.
I believe that all who have died, including the first human pair, are awaiting a resurrection. Otherwise, the Enemy would have triumphed.
Once again, this is MY belief, supported by the Holy Scriptures in which I have an abiding faith.
I don't beat anyone over the head or sneer at them because they believe differently.
I don't push my views on others, but if asked, I speak up without hesitation.
This is a DISCUSSION board, and as we are all grown-up adults (I hope), I see no reason why anyone should resort to ridicule and name-calling because we may disagree.
As is often stated by Dear Abby, the purpose of my starting this topic was to comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable.
I think this purpose has been accomplished.
It is a beautiful, but hot, Sunday here in Alabama. It is so quiet down here; I don't see another living or dead soul. It is so good to be communicating with all of you.
Sylvia
snowbird

Perry, that list is impressive!
Of course there are exceptions, Hamilcarr; we're talking about humans after all!
Sylvia
Mariusuk.

Sorry that list is loaded, as well as a bit silly
JW's - Believe in God
Christians - Believe in God
Atheists - Don't
JW's believe in a "reward"
Christains - believe in a "reward"
Atheists - don't
These are the fundamental and only real important differences
chrisjoel

Anything can be proven from the Bible. Anything.

Atheist: Does Not Worship Jesus

Christian: Worships Jesus

Aliens- Quite Possibly invented Jesus

2. JW: Does Not Pray to Jesus

Atheist: Does Not Pray to Jesus

Christian: Prays to Jesus

Aliens- Probably are not listening to your prayers

3. JW: Rejects Jesus offer at the Memorial

Atheist: Rejects Jesus offer

Christian: Accepts Jesus offer

Aliens- Invented the offer?

4. JW: Doesn’t accept literal creation account

Atheist: Doesn’t accept literal creation account

Christian: Many accept literal creation account

Aliens-Probably created everything in a lab experiment

. JW: Gets knowledge of “good and bad” from human authority - WT

Atheist: Gets knowledge of “good and bad” from human authority – social conditioning

Christian: Gets knowledge of good and bad from God - Indwelling Holy Spirit

Aliens- Vastly superior knowledge as can be seen from their coming and going through our world without much detection.

7. JW: Hates their enemies

Atheist: Hates their enemies

Christian: Can Supernaturally Love their enemies

Aliens-Were so afraid of Them our gov use National Security just so as to avoid the subject

8. JW: Doesn’t need a personal Savior (growing into perfection)

Atheist: Doesn’t need a personal Savior (sin doesn’t exist, only “mistakes”)

Christian: Needs a personal Savior (God’s justice demands punishment of ALL sin

Aliens-For all we know theyre God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost

Ect ect..

No reasong to continue since the point Im trying to make is its just as easy to say Aliens in the place of God. So why take it all so seriously. We dont have all the answers period.
Carlos_Helms

After some careful observation and consideration of this thread, my vote still lies in the Christian camp.

Then again, it doesn't really matter, does it? Either you've experienced the Lord by means of the Holy Spirit, or you haven't. It is possible to describe the experience...in fact, those who've had it can easily "talk amongst themselves." But I equate this discussion to trying to describe "color" to someone who's never had the sense of sight. I can tell you that Holy Spirit TENDS to work with/through people who've met a certain criteria (although I would never presume to put limits on the Holy Spirit).

The very fact that people oppose the Spirit is evidence enough (for me anyway) of its existence. The things I don't "believe in," I don't form a territory around requiring my defense.

Peace,
Carlos
chrisjoel

Carlos
How do you know its not just all in your head? For so long as JWs we looked at the HS as impersonal so with your yearning to believe so strongly in God- ( with the threat of your spiritual world crumbling around you if there is no Jesus) - how do you realize that this HS you speak of is a real person not a figment of your imaginaton. HOW does it work inside you. How does it talk to you? THere must be a catalyst. Explain it to me in terms i can distinguish between fancifulness and reality.That is to say that we as humans love to embellish things so explain it to me without the "color". Thank you.
XJW4EVR

I have stayed out of this thread because so many of the atheists on this board have taken the Hitchens method. Basically it is to not debate, but instead to throw vile and disgusting insults at Christians. That's fine. I do not respond to that sort of attack. If an atheist wishes to discuss the existence of God in civilized and gracious manner then I will participate.

Perry, your 63 theses seem to be dead on. I can tell by the vicious and ungracious responses they have garnered. Good job!

One Reason Why I Worship the God of the Bible

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