Have you ever just felt crushed by what someone has said to you?

by Hope4Others 62 Replies latest jw friends

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  cognizant dissident

  some part of us must identify with and believe that the words are true (at least partially).

  Hi cog, I dont believe thats aways true.
  <<<<<<<<< some of us were raised to think that the words of another person could devalue us even if the werent true.

  Good point Ip-Sec. I was one of those raised in such a way. I felt constantly devalued by my family. In fact, I WAS devalued in their eyes. I possibly still am for various reasons. I guess the gist of my point was that I no longer believe their words are true and hence I am no longer devalued in my own estimation, regardless of what they say to me or what my value is to them. Their words no longer have any "crushing" power over me. This was a choice on my part (helped along by a couple of years of counseling) but still, in the end, my choice as to what meaning and weight I give to words. So, I agree with Hillary. Ultimately it is about self-esteem. As a child, our self-esteem can be dealt crushing blows by adults (especially parents) and our peers. As an adult, nobody can take away our self-esteem unless we give them that power. Cog
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  As an adult, nobody can take away our self-esteem unless we give them that power.

  Here's something for you to think about: some people never had self esteem in the first place. And, they don't always gain it as adults. That is a pat answer: "nobody can take away our self-esteem unless we give them that power." That's like telling a person who is suffering from severe clinical depression "just cheer up and get a grip."
• 

  cognizant dissident

  As an adult, nobody can take away our self-esteem unless we give them that power.

  Here's something for you to think about: some people never had self esteem in the first place. And, they don't always gain it as adults. That is a pat answer: "nobody can take away our self-esteem unless we give them that power." That's like telling a person who is suffering from severe clinical depression "just cheer up and get a grip."

  It certainly is not a pat answer! It is an answer born from years of experience, being one of those who for most of my life had NO self-esteem due to years of childhood emotional, physical and sexual abuse. Believe me, I know all about having no self esteem to begin with. I have been suicidal myself, over crushing words spoken to me by my family, telling me I would be better off dead!

  I also did not find any self-esteem as a young adult. Df'd for 3 years, shunned by family and friends. When re-instated I suffered years of anxiety and severe clinical depression culminating in a diagnosis of PTSD and was on various medications for 10 years. Being "depressed" became a major part of my identity. I thought I would be on medication for the rest of my life. I would never tell a depressed person to just cheer up and get a grip and I was highly annoyed when people did that to me, my son, and other friends who suffered from depression. However, I am living proof that there is a way out depression, anxiety and low self-esteem. I have not taken anti-depressants for almost two years now. That does not mean I do not get down, blue and depressed because frankly life sucks sometimes, mine included, and that is just reality. However, I CHOOSE to deal with it differently than in the past. I no longer "identity" with my depression (or any of my moods for that matter). I no longer define myself by those labels, I no longer allow my controlling family, JW's or anyone to define who I am with their words or actions. I choose who I am and how I will respond in all situations as opposed to just "reacting" to life circumstances. I understand if my previous words seemed easy and "pat". That was not my intention. It was not easy to get to this point. It was damned hard work on my part. Years of counseling, but not just venting or listening, actually putting into practice what I was advised to do. Commitment to make changes in how I acted in my life. Standing up to my abusive family. Leaving JW's. Being willing to be shunned by family and friends. Years of meditation and spiritual reading and practice. Allowing myself to feel feelings of depression, grief and anxiety, explore and work through them no matter how terrifying they were. Being willing to face the reality of all that it means to be human. The beauty and the ugliness. Pat? Never. Worth every bit of the struggle? Absolutely! I stand by what I said. As adults, no one can take away our self-esteem unless we give it to them. The only way we can ever get it back or develop it if we never had any to begin with, is to acknowledge that the choice is ours in the first place. It is in our power how to respond to others and what to believe. Cog ps: I write this not to argue, but out of empathy and to offer hope to others who are suffering similiar circumstances in life.
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  FlyingHighNow

  It certainly is not a pat answer! It is an answer born from years of experience,

  I don't mean to offend you, but you can only speak for yourself. What worked for you, what happened to you is unique. There are people who will read this thread who never had self esteem and still don't have self esteem. You cannot expect them to react as you do to life. There is other better advice for people who have very damaged self esteem. Telling them that no one can take their self esteem unless they allow it isn't going to help them. Give them resources to help them gain self esteem in the first place. Then you can tell them no one can take their self esteem unless they allow it.
• 

  cognizant dissident

  It certainly is not a pat answer! It is an answer born from years of experience,

  I don't mean to offend you, but you can only speak for yourself. What worked for you, what happened to you is unique. There are people who will read this thread who never had self esteem and still don't have self esteem. You cannot expect them to react as you do to life. There is other better advice for people who have very damaged self esteem. Telling them that no one can take their self esteem unless they allow it isn't going to help them. Give them resources to help them gain self esteem in the first place. Then you can tell them no one can take their self esteem unless they allow it.

  You are not offending me FHN. I rarely get offended by other's people opinions now. If I do, I let it go quite quickly. As for the rest, yes, I can only speak for myself and that is what I was doing, describing MY expereince. I do not expect what worked for me to work for other people. That does not mean that it CANNOT work for other people. My experience is not that unique and I know of many other people who have come from circumstances similiar to mine who have been helped to change their lives with just such an approach. We can learn from other's experiences. We can see what actions generally lead to greater self-esteem in people and what actions tend to be detrimental to it (drug and alcohol abuse as a coping mechanism, for example.) As for there being "better advice" out there, perhaps that is true. Who judges and defines whether advice is "better" for others or not? You? Me? Professional experts? Or, they themselves? I am suggesting that it is they themselves that have the power to choose for themselves what "works" for them. It may be similiar to what I have done or something totally different. I am not against medication or any approaches that work to help build self-esteem in anyone. It's all good, if it works. The point is, it is their choice and making those choices will be an empowering and self-esteem building process in itself. Defining for themselves who they are and what is best for them as opposed to automatically believing or accepting other people's definitions of what is "good" for us. Other people can never "give" you self-esteem. It comes from inside of yourself. Neither can they take it away from you, it it does come from inside of you. Only if you are seeking external esteem can it be taken away from you and then you are extremely vulnerable to the "crushing" weight of other's words and criticisms. Cog
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  FlyingHighNow

  You're over simplifying and then over thinking, CD. It's very simple, if people don't have self esteem, you can't take it from them.
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  cognizant dissident

  You're over simplifying and then over thinking, CD. It's very simple, if people don't have self esteem, you can't take it from them.

  Now it is you who are making "pat" comments and oversimplifying. I simply stated my experience and what worked for me and you said there is better advice out there and yet you never said what that better advice was. I was not even trying to give advice only make an observation about self-esteem that was born from my own experience.

  I am curious as to why you take such exception to my observation and my experience? I am suggesting that if people never had any self-esteem in the first place, and I acknowledge I was one of those who didn't, being abused from quite a young age, that it is possible for them to do things to develop it, as I did, and many people have. There could be many different approaches to building self-esteem, approaches that are well known, even in professional circles, to help build self-esteem. Still, ultimately, the individual has to take the responsibility to do the work to make changes in how they view themselves. I am curious as to why you are so resistant to that idea? What do you suggest as an alternative? Cog
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  FlyingHighNow

  I am curious as to why you take such exception to my observation and my experience?

  I take exception when someone hurts a suffering person with a misplaced pat statement. I don't think you'd intend to hurt anyone with your observation and experience. You mean well. Just think about what I've said. Some people grow up without healthy self esteem. People without it need to gain it before they can lose it. People with low or no self esteem would benefit more from direction to resources that would help them build self esteem.
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  cognizant dissident

  I am curious as to why you take such exception to my observation and my experience?

  I take exception when someone hurts a suffering person with a misplaced pat statement. I don't think you'd intend to hurt anyone with your observation and experience. You mean well. Just think about what I've said. Some people grow up without healthy self esteem. People without it need to gain it before they can lose it. People with low or no self esteem would benefit more from direction to resources that would help them build self esteem.

  I fail to see how sharing my own experience with low self-esteem and the positive methods which helped me to overcome it (it is still a work in progress, I admit) was hurtful in any way to anyone? Whom did I hurt? The poster with the original question? Did she tell you this or are you just assuming? In what way could my words have hurt her?

  I also fail to see how it was "pat". I said it was years of hard work and I used many different approaches which are still ongoing. In what way was I directing her or anyone away from resources that could help them build self-esteem. I shared many different resources that I used. You quote tiny little portions of what I said and then ignore large sections of what I wrote acknowledging what hard work it is, how long it took, and that my approaches may not work for anyone. I in no way implied any of it was simple. Yet you continually suggest that I am over simplifying. I strongly suspect that you have taken personal exception to one of the approaches that I said was useful for me in building self-esteem. (I have no doubt you will correct me if I'm mistaken). I'm curious to know what it is that you are so resistant to? Counseling? Meditation? Spiritual reading? Practice? Giving up medications? Acknowledging that as an adult, I have a choice in how I respond to others? Taking responsibility for that response? Honestly, I am really curious to know what it is I wrote, that has put such a bee in your bonnet. I know my comments were not pat nor simple. For some reason, you are determined to dismiss them as such. Care to examine why? Cog
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  FlyingHighNow

  I didn't take exception with everything you said.