How the new "generation" study went down in the meeting today

by slimboyfat 75 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Mary

  Garybuss said: The only part of the "extended period" portfolio of needed changes left to change now is that the printing company needs to make the number 144,000 a figurative number rather than a literal number.

  Actually, I can see this being next on the list of 'new and improved light', for a variety of reasons.

  1. It would help them explain the increase in the number of partakers each year
  2. It would give them an unlimited extention for why Armageddon is nowhere in site
  3. It would molify those who have long felt that they wanted to go to heaven when they died, even though they were dunked after 1935
  4. It would make null and void the very real historical fact that if the number was literal, it would have been filled about 1800 years ago (which is probably the most glaring fact that blows their present doctrine out of the water).
  5. It would still allow for them to retain their "Faithful and Discreet Slave" class as being only the Governing Body members---no one else.
     
     Let's see how long it take the Holy Spirit to reveal this to "God's Channel".
• 

  sir82

  The only part of the "extended period" portfolio of needed changes left to change now is that the printing company needs to make the number 144,000 a figurative number rather than a literal number.

  Here's my fearless prediction: They will keep the 144,000 number as literal, but allow the number of "anointed" ones to grow without limit. I.e., a return to the "2 heavenly classes" of Russell's time.

  That way, they keep the "exclusiveness" of a small number of anointed ones calling the shots, but still can explain away the virtually sure-to-happen significant increase in the number of partakers at the Memorial.

  They'll still leave the "paradise earth" door open as well, as most JWs have their hearts set on that, and many might be upset enough to leave if they no longer have that hope.

  I have no idea how they will attempt to justify this scripturally, but given the convolutions of their scriptural "support" of the changes to the definition of a "generation", I'm sure they will come up with something.
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  SirNose586

  Here's my fearless prediction: They will keep the 144,000 number as literal, but allow the number of "anointed" ones to grow without limit. I.e., a return to the "2 heavenly classes" of Russell's time.

  I don't think anyone's creative enough to bring things back to that old light. Even though they opened the door just a crack to let the post-1935 annointed in, something tells me that they are still interested in keeping heaven tightly shut. A figurative 144k would be the easiest fix to their slightly opened door.
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Here's my two cents:

  Cent #1: A generation should be no more than 40 years, as applied to the wandering Israelites in the wilderness eating magic snow every morning except the sabbath, and as foretold by Jesus in 33 to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70CE. The 70-80 years was a huge and barely scriptural stretch. Until, of course, time ran out. The current "this generation" explanation has no scriptural precident whatsoever.

  Cent #2: The problem with opening the door and saying that more than 144,000 are anointed would reduce the authority of the Governing Body. They would have to find some other nutty interpretation to keep their godlike authority over the growing faithful and discreet slave 'class'. Perhaps they would revert to a single 'slave' *cough*Ted Jaracz*cough* and the rest of the 144000+ as the 'domestics' that faithful and discreet Teddy is feedin'.

  I'm outa cents!

  B the X
• 

  TheListener

  The GB already have all the power in the organization.

  It doesn't matter to them if 4,000 or 24,000 individuals partake.

  They can allow 144,000 to become figurative and still make no organizational adjustments whatsoever.
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  Terry

  This may seem irrelevent to some, but, how long does it take from the time a human is born until they are ABLE to generate more life?

  That would be the time from birth to puberty. Roughly 15 years in ancient society and about 20 years in Western, present day society.

  By this logic, a generation is the interval between your own birth and your offspring's ability to generate life on their own.

  By the above calculation 30 to 40 years.

  You can slice it, dice it however you like, but, a generation is never quite what the Watchtower Society says it is.
• 

  james_woods

  The Listener deserves the "beacon of reality" award for today. As he points out -

  Since when did the 20,000 or so of the 144,000 partaking of the emblems at any one time make the slightest bit of difference to the tiny governing few - the president of the WTS, his lackeys, or the governing body?

  There is actually only one small ruling clique in power - within the Governing Body who have the same agenda and can outvote the others. Nobody else in the outer world counts, partakers or not.

  I wonder if their deep thinkers ever wondered if early 1st century Christians even knew that they were of the 144,000? That would be sort of ridiculous that St. John wrote the obscure words that got this started way back then, but never knew what they meant. Nor the other apostles, nor the nicean fathers - not even the FS Russell -nobody until drunken old Rutherford!

  Terry, I guess you may have a point with the 40 years ( 2 x 20 years procreational age). I was thinking about the span from one Generation to another, i.e. Baby Boomers to GenX to GenY as they call it on the internet pages. But I guess the WTS was going on "Generation of 1914 to not pass away", which would I guess mean lifespan.

  Doesn't matter, though, does it? - now that we are in 2008 and even the tiniest baby that was on board the Titannic is gone.

  Hence their little adjustment.
• 

  Mary

  Billy said: Cent #2: The problem with opening the door and saying that more than 144,000 are anointed would reduce the authority of the Governing Body.

  Since the Governing Body members do not even consult any of the 'annointed' outside their cloistered walls, changing this doctrine would have very little, if any effect on their authority and power. In ISOCF on page 159, Ray Franz says:

  "Any headquarters staff members who are of the "anointed" but who are not priviledged to be members of the inner circle of the Governing Body are never---on the basis of their being of the "anointed"--called in to Governing Body meetings to express their views. They are never interviewed on that basis and are rarely talked to on matters of weight. They are as much in the dark as to what goes on in the Governing Body meetings as any 19-years old boy in the Bethel headquarters family. Yet they are supposedly part of the "faithful and discreet slave" class to which the Master has entrusted all his goods."

  As the top guns do not include any of their 'brethren' in 'dispensing food at the proper time', it would not change anything if they made the 144,000 a figuative number. The most serious consequence would probably be a swelling of the numbers at the Memorial, but since they would not have any power or input on how the Organization is run, it really wouldn't even matter.
• 

  mary stewart

  JCanon, the state of Isreal has nothing to dowith prophecy! You think Jeebus is gonna rule in physical Isreal?

  BTW, how do you add those emotes like the laughing dog and the Clint Eastwood thing?
• 

  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  I'll just mention that my cent #2 is based on a few unique observations in my Bethel days. I'd be very surprised if the current GB would open the door for more anointed. But then, I was surprised when they slightly cracked the door in the recent past. I think that was only to try to legitimize their own authority. Losch is #1 about defending the partakers that were born well after 1935... paranoid perhaps? I might start a thread someday about the "newboy" GB members.

  However, I'd love to see them flip the switch for some more noolite! Maybe I'd stick around da troof a little longer... I love free wineand crackers!!

  B the X

  edited to add: Sorry, I don't mean to sound like a name-dropping, arrogant, a**hole ex-Beth-hellite. Just trying to explain my guesswork.