How the new "generation" study went down in the meeting today

by slimboyfat 75 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • JCanon

    Thanks again, for sharing. Just for those who still believe, of course, the JIOR has the correct understanding so are not in the least concerned about the "generation" issue.

    The correct understanding of the "generation" is that it is a simple 40 years from the first sign until the last; from a world war until the "sign of the son of man appears, in the period of 1914 to 1954. Witnesses are confused additionally because they think the END of the "system of things" is a reference to Armageddon. But the "system of things" for the Jews at that time was their being under gentile rule. The "system of things" was the current state of political affairs for them. The END of that "system of things" under the gentiles had an "appointed time" so the Jews knew it would end and on the heels of the gentile times ending would come the messiah. That's what they were asking about. So obviously between 1914-1954 the END of the "system of things" of the gentile times did indeed occur in 1947. So the "generation" comment wasn't even in regard to Armageddon.

    As far as the point about how it was said that Satan, having been cast out of heaven and only having a "short time" I think is a relevant observation. The second coming fulfills "1335 days" which is 45 years after the Jews are restored to Israel and thus 45 years after 1947. That means the second coming per the Bible occurred in 1992. Question is, would we still consider the time as having elapsed still within the concept of "a short time"? Is 20 years a considerably "short time"? It's half a generation of 40 years. 20 years will expire in 2012.. If Armageddon thus came by 2012 I wouldn't see a strategic contradiction in the "short time" reference, not that I'm limiting "a short time." But that is certainly less than a generation of 40 years and way, way less than the period that will be 100 years in 2014!! We are less than 10 years from a century past 1914. Clearly the WTS fulfills that slave who thinks the master is delaying. The master has not delayed, they just have the wrong dates and the wrong understanding as to what to look for.

    Sad, really. But it's nice to have the true understanding too. Clearly there is a lot more wrong than just the "generation" interperation as far as what JWs expect. The "END of the system of things" is the same as the 'END of the gentile times" which ended in 1947.


  • Leolaia

    slimboyfat.....Very interesting comments and reactions.

    There was a terribly jarring combination in the article as it was argued first that Jesus' presence would be an "extended period", and then the standard reference was trotted out about the devil coming down to the earth with much anger knowing he has a "short period of time". So much emphasis was placed on the idea of it being an "extended period" of time, you really have to wonder how the writer did not get embarrassed then sticking in the usual "short period of time" reference in such close proximity.

    I didn't notice that....nice catch! It is also quite striking how in a few paragraphs "presence" became a definite "period" which then became prolonged into an "extended period". The use of the word "extended" in particular seemingly came out of nowhere.

    I really wonder how much longer the Society can get away with calling the "last days" from 1914 until a still-future-Armageddon a "short period of time". Surely within the next few years someone will need to say "let's sit down and rethink this whole chronology business". It is getting just a bit ridiculous at this point in my opinion.

    It seems like 1914 as the start of the "last days" will be the last thing to go. Have you noticed that in the present article, the generation is defined more by the endpoint of the "extended period" than the start point? It's no longer necessary for the generation to start in 1914.

    Does anyone else notice something different? There are a lot more from different racial backgrounds in there than there used to be! Black people and Asians outnumber the white people shown. In the Revelation book and past Watchtower articles there have been pictures of the anointed that supposedly span the generations from the first century to the present, and they show the early apostles, and then Russell and other early Witnesses, then Franz: all white. I suppose what with a potential new upward trend in anointed numbers since the new understanding about 1935 not being a cut off date, then those claiming to be anointed might now be more racially mixed in the past.

    Another rather savvy comment. It does subtly play into the new understanding of 1935 no longer being a cut-off date, whether intentional or not. I wonder if others, especially JWs in other countries where there never have been anointed in congregations, might interpret the picture the same way and take it as supporting JWs who want to declare themselves as anointed.

    3. How thoroughly weird that when they introduced the new understanding about the generation not the slightest mention was made that for decades the Watchtower taught that "this generation" referred to people alive in 1914, and that Armageddon would come within the lifespan of those people. Instead the article only mentioned the most recent understanding introduced in 1995 about the generation referring to wicked people who reject God living today. How can they get away with this?

    It's weird but not surprising. They would have to admit that they've had to change their views more than once on this, which takes away from their claim in the very article that only the anointed have the wisdom to properly understand the prophecy and its fulfillment.

    Imagine if they had come out with the "generation" new light before they dropped the 1935 date. What would have happened then? I reckon we would be back in the scenario of working out how long a generation lasts from 1935 - 70 or 80 years - and asking whether that refers to people who can "remember" the year or simply who were born in 1935 and not later; all the nonsense speculation we went through in the Watchtowers of the 1980's in other words.

    Wow, another fascinating observation. :) What this suggests to me is that they scheduled out the refinements to prevent such problems from arising -- and who knows what other refinements are still in store that have been planned in committee.

    Despite the fact that it was changed in 1995, there were Witnesses present who clearly still had some confused idea that 1914 can still be viewed as a sort of starting date for working out a generation, albeit a longer one than previously envisaged.

    Do we know if that article with pre-1995 "old light" is still online on the official Watchtower website?

  • truthseeker

    There are definitely malicious and devious minds in the writing department - forget that the Governing Body are chosen by God.

    They sit there,look at their numbers and figure out new ways to keep the Witnesses happy and busy while still believing that the end is near.

    The fact that they have to be so crafty about it suggests that the evil slave has well and truly arrived in force.

    They beat their brothers over the delay.

  • BizzyBee
    and embarrassed myself.

    Not possible, JC!

  • White Dove
    White Dove

    I'm completely confused. I just can't seem to keep up with these changes now that I'm out. I'm so used to thinking logically thanks to going to college finally, that none of what they tell people to believe appears logical anymore. I was never trained to think logically until a couple of years ago. It just keeps me confused. I know that is a good thing, but wow are they ever being duped! It appears so clear now how easy it is to fool the R&F. How embarrassing, and they don't even know it's happening to them. Blows my mind!

  • BizzyBee
    I was never trained to think logically until a couple of years ago.

    Fortunately, White Dove, logic is the natural default of the healthy human mind. The fact is, many things get in the way of this logical thinking, but the mind basically wants to go there. Training is helpful but not necessary.

  • avengers

    Hey SBF.

    Thanks for the heads up.

    I suppose the calculation may have been made thatit would be better not to confuse these new believers by informing them that until recently the Watchtower itself was promising the end would come within the lifetime of the 1914 generation. And for those Witnesses who have been around long enough to know all about it, perhaps it was figured best not to remind them of the disappointment explicitly.

    This should read:

    it would be better to confuse these new believers by informing them that until recently the Watchtower itself was promising the end would come within the lifetime of the 1914 generation.


  • White Dove
    White Dove

    Apparently we do need the critical thinking class in college as it is compulsory for a degree. It helped me to form good arguments and recognize bad ones. Bad one number one: If you are not for Jehovah, you are against him and for Satan. Logic doesn't come naturally for all of us born-ins because we were never allowed to ask those kinds of questions, but when we learn how to apply logic to everything, it's priceless!

  • Hortensia

    I've learned a lot about logic in the last couple of years - from this website and a course I took. Helps a lot to see the flawed reasoning. Also, I was in from 1956 to 1982 and it doesn't matter what they say now, they definitely taught that the end would come in 1975. Everything was focused on that date, and when it passed without the end of the world, well, a lot of folks lost their intensity.

  • bobld

    Slimboyfat,I enjoyed your comments.I felt the same.Extended period=short period of time.90 years=just around the corner=last hour.The kicker "the conclusion of the system of things and the end.Can be illustrated by a talk given at the Kingdom Hall.The talk is the last section which the speaker spends a little time.Q4 & 5 Talks about Jesus presence is an extended period of time.Just like their concluding prayers at the D.C. an extended period of time.

    In our Hall,When they got to part "The Generation Seeing the Sign" it was covered very fast with few comments because they made sure all the time was gone by para 10.


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