Self Deceit and Faith.

by hillary_step 208 Replies latest jw friends

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  hillary_step

  5Go,

  Is Christianity anything like it was 1800 years ago.

  Some aspects have changed and others have not. What one needs to ask themselves is how much Christianity has changed since the free-flow of education and information the past 200 years. It has changed more rapidly in this period than it did during the previous 1600 years, and imo will hardly be recognizable in one thousand years, if indeed it exists at all.

  Free flow of education and communication by the way is the reason that Islam is doomed to either change or break.

  HS
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  Vinny

  Hilary says:.."Sincere and genuine beliefs are strewn throughout history and prove that they have nothing to do with reality."
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 

  hillary_step

  Vinny,

  ****** A "Misconception", Hilary, is not the same thing as "self-deception". I would hope you'd know this.

  Noun 1. self-deceit - a misconception that is favorable to the person who holds it
  self-deception

  Of course I know the difference between a misconception and self-deception. One leads to the other. You have taken my usage of this one word out of the context of the whole Vinny. My posts are very clear on this matter. I have quoted a dictionary definition above to which this discussion has been consistently worked with, hence the term 'framework". It is not as you incorrectly termed it "my framework", but the framework supplied by a dictionary.

  I would hope that you would know this. :)

  I don't really care about your "framework of this discussion", as you wish to use the term "self-deception". Use it correctly, as it is properly defined.

  As you can see, it is yourself who has used the term incorrectly.

  Let me give you an example of how you are incorrect.

  The concept of god is not a misconception. Adding to that concept, on grounds that are unfalsifiable and have been proved as such by history and science IS misconception and I posit is a form of self-deceit. When you understand this, you might understand what this thread is actually about.

  HS
• 

  Vinny

  Here you go Hilary, let's take YOUR OWN WORDS, FROM YOUR OWN OPENING POST:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  noun "the action or practice of allowing oneself to believe that a false or unvalidated feeling, idea, or situation is true : Jane remarked on men's capacity for self-deception."
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 

  hillary_step

  Vinny,

  Come now, don't act the dumbass, surely you can do better than this?

  "My premise is that faith is a form of self-deceit - lying to oneself." ****** Get it now?

  I quote my post in full:

  Vinny,

  ****** A "Misconception", Hilary, is not the same thing as "self-deception". I would hope you'd know this.

  Noun 1. self-deceit - a misconception that is favorable to the person who holds it
  self-deception

  Of course I know the difference between a misconception and self-deception. One leads to the other. You have taken my usage of this one word out of the context of the whole Vinny. My posts are very clear on this matter. I have quoted a dictionary definition above to which this discussion has been consistently worked with, hence the term 'framework". It is not as you incorrectly termed it "my framework", but the framework supplied by a dictionary.

  I would hope that you would know this. :)

  I don't really care about your "framework of this discussion", as you wish to use the term "self-deception". Use it correctly, as it is properly defined.

  As you can see, it is yourself who has used the term incorrectly.

  Let me give you an example of how you are incorrect.

  The concept of god is not a misconception. Adding to that concept, on grounds that are unfalsifiable and have been proved as such by history and science IS misconception and I posit is a form of self-deceit. When you understand this, you might understand what this thread is actually about.

  Read it again. Then again. Get the sense of it.

  "My premise is that faith is a form of self-deceit - lying to oneself."

  Yes, that is my premise....and......?

  You seem incapable of understanding the diffrence between, misconception, self-deceit and faith and actually do not seem to even understand the concept of this thread. I have to say, that you are the only person who has not been able to understand the deliniations between these terms. They are not particularly subtle to be honest.

  I am pleased though that you seem to see that your original accusation :

  ****** A "Misconception", Hilary, is not the same thing as "self-deception". I would hope you'd know this.

  ...was put to rest by my quoting a dictionary definition that sorted out your error.

  Misconception, self-deceit, faith. Three different signposts on the same road.

  Get it now?

  HS
• 

  Vinny

  Hilary says:..."The concept of god is not a misconception.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  The bible may not be from God. I have always stated that is a possibility. But there are also powerful reasons to believe it could be. For those that do believe, I respect their reasons for such beliefs and would certainly not label them as self-deceived.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  But you see, that was not your initial question. You asked:
  
  
  1- "In what way is faith not self-deception?"
  
  
  and
  
  
  2) "Is a person who has faith in a God that you do not believe in, say for example Siva, practicing a form of self-deception?"
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 

  Vinny

  Hilary says:.."Vinny, Come now, don't act the dumbass, surely you can do better than this?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 

  BurnTheShips

  Superfine,

  i predict "burntheships" will be an atheist 2 years from now.

  I am with you on this one. I think so too.

  I can't be sure what I'll be in 2 years, and you can't either. However, what makes you two think that? Just curious.

  Burn
• 

  BurnTheShips

  HS

  I've been reviewing this epic thread and to revisit your question on miracles.

  You admit that God could exist. It's his noodly appendages you object to. However, it is reasonable to suppose that if God exists, miracles are possible. Presumably God would certainly have the means to interact with the world we experience and it is quite possible that he has the motives. If God created the universe (and us) he would presumably have an interest in it-and us. It is reasonable that this would furnish prime motivation for performing miraculous events.

  Burn
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  tijkmo

  I can't be sure what I'll be in 2 years, and you can't either. However, what makes you two think that? Just curious.

  faith !!