Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change

by observador 175 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • heathen
    heathen
    15 Today, people who don't have the spiritual understanding think that there is nothing of "stunningly observable" as to the signs of Jesus' presence. They reason that all continues as before. (2 Peter 3:4) On the other hand, the faithful brothers of Christ, the present class of John, recognize this sign as if it was a lightning and understand its real meaning. As a group, those anointed comprise the present "generation" of comtemporaries who won't pass away "until all the things come to pass".* This indicates that some of anointed brothers of Christ will still be alive on earth when the foretold great tribulation begins.

    What a load of bunk . Revelation is very clear that the 144k (which we all know this paragraph is talking about) are martyred . Revelation was written after the apostle Paul writings which are not specific on the issue, that I can remember, stating it was the "remnant" that escape the tribulation or meet the lord in the clouds . They continue to add to the scriptures with dogma that just doesn't make sense to me.

  • Nick!
    Nick!

    For those of you who know Italian, here are the 8 incriminated paragraphs of the magazine:

    La Torre di Guardia 15 febbraio 2008

    COSA SIGNIFICA PER VOI LA PRESENZA DI CRISTO

    paragrafi: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 /.........

    8/ Quando i farisei lo interrogarono circa il tempo in cui sarebbe venuto il Regno, Gesù rispose che dal loro punto di vista esso non sarebbe venuto “in maniera appariscente”. (Luca 17:20,21) I non credenti non avrebbero capito. Del resto, come avrebbero potuto? Non riconoscevano nemmeno Gesù quale loro futuro Re. Ma allora chi avrebbe riconosciuto il segno della presenza di Cristo e ne avrebbe anche compreso il significato?

    9/ Proseguendo, Gesù disse che i suoi discepoli avrebbero visto il segno con la stessa chiarezza con cui potevano vedere un “lampo [che], col suo fulgore, risplende da una parte all'altra sotto il cielo”. (Leggi Luca 17:24-29). Fatto interessante, Matteo 24:23-27 mette in diretta relazione lo stesso punto con il segno della presenza di Cristo.

    La generazione che vede il segno
    10/ In passato questa rivista ha spiegato che nel I secolo l'espressione “questa generazione” che ricorre in Matteo 24:34 significa “la generazione contemporanea dei giudei increduli”.* Quella spiegazione sembrava ragionevole perché in tutti gli altri brani biblici in cui Gesù usò il termine “generazione” esso ha una connotazione negativa, e perché nella maggior parte dei casi Gesù qualificò la generazione con un aggettivo, come “malvagia”. (Matt.12:39; 17:17; Mar.8:38) Si pensava pertanto che, nell'adempimento moderno, Gesù si riferisse alla malvagia “generazione” di increduli che avrebbe visto sia gli aspetti che dovevano caratterizzare il “termine [syntèleia] del sistema di cose” sua la fine (tèlos) del sistema stesso.

    11/ È vero che quando Gesù usò il termine “generazione” in senso negativo si stava rivolgendo alle persone malvage dei suoi giorni o stava parlando di loro. Ma è necessariamente così nel caso di Matteo 24:34? Ricordate che quattro suoi discepoli l'avevano avvicinato “privatamente”. (Matt.24:3) Visto che Gesù non usò aggettivi negativi quando parlò loro di “questa generazione”, gli apostoli avranno senz'altro capito che essi e gli altri discepoli dovevano far parte della “generazione” che non sarebbe passata “finché tutte queste cose non [fossero] avvenute”.

    12/ Come giungiamo a questa conclusione? Analizzando con attenzione il contesto. Come si legge in Matteo 24:32, 33, Gesù disse: “Ora imparate dall'illustrazione del fico questo punto: Appena il suo ramoscello si fa tenero e mette le foglie, sapete che l'estate è vicina. Così anche voi, quando vedrete tutte queste cose, sappiate che egli è vicino, alle porte”. (Confronta Marco 13:28-30; Luca 21:30-32). Poi, in Matteo 24:34, si legge: “Veramente vi dico che questa generazione non passerà affatto finché tutte queste cose non siano avvenute”.

    13/ Gesù disse che quelli che dovevano essere in grado di trarre certe conclusioni vedendo avvenire “tutte queste cose” erano i suoi discepoli, i quali di lì a poco sarebbero stati unti con lo spirito santo. Perciò Gesù doveva riferirsi ai suoi discepoli quando dichiarò: “Questa generazione non passerà affatto finché tutte queste cose non siano avvenute”.

    14/ A differenza degli increduli, i discepoli di Gesù non solo avrebbero visto il segno ma ne avrebbero anche compreso il significato. Avrebbero “imparato” dagli aspetti di quel segno e avrebbero 'saputo' qual è il loro vero significato. Avrebbero capito benissimo che “egli è vicino, alle porte”. È vero che nel I secolo sia gli ebrei increduli che i fedeli cristiani unti videro adempiersi in maniera limitata le parole di Gesù, ma a quel tempo solo i suoi seguaci unti poterono imparare da tali avvenimenti, comprendendo il vero significato di quello che vedevano.

    15/ Oggi le persone prive di intendimento spirituale ritengono che il segno della presenza di Gesù non si sia visto “in maniera appariscente”. Sostengono che tutto continua come in passato. (2 Piet.3:4) Invece i fedeli fratelli unti di Cristo, che costituiscono la moderna classe di Giovanni, hanno riconosciuto questo segno come se avesse il fulgore di un lampo e ne hanno compreso il vero significato. Come classe, questi unti formano la moderna “generazione” di contemporanei che non passerà “finché tutte queste cose non siano avvenute”. ** Ciò fa pensare che alcuni degli unti fratelli di Cristo saranno ancora in vita sulla terra quando avrà inizio la predetta grande tribolazione.

    .
    * Vedi la Torre di Guardia, 1° novembre 1995, pp.11-15, 19, 30, 31.
    ** Il periodo di tempo in cui “questa generazione” è in vita sembra corrispondere al periodo in cui si adempie la prima visione del libro di Rivelazione. (Riv.1:10-3:22) Questo aspetto del giorno del Signore si estende dal 1914 fino alla morte e risurrezione dell'ultimo unto fedele. - Vedi Rivelazione: Il suo grandioso culmine è vicino!, p.24, par. 4.

    Domande:
    8,9/ Chi avrebbe riconosciuto il segno della presenza di Cristo e ne avrebbe compreso il significato?
    10,11/ (a) Quale spiegazione è stata data in passato circa la “generazione” menzionata in Matteo 24:34?
    (b) Chi doveva far parte di quella “generazione”, secondo quanto avranno senz'altro capito i discepoli di Gesù?
    12/ In che modo il contesto ci permette di capire a chi si riferiva Gesù con il termine “generazione”?
    13,14/ Perché possiamo dire che la “generazione” a cui si riferiva Gesù dovevano essere i suoi discepoli?
    15/ (a) Da chi è formata la moderna “generazione” a cui si riferiva Gesù? (b) Perché non possiamo calcolare la durata esatta di “questa generazione”? (Vedi il riquadro a pagina 25).

  • Nick!
    Nick!

    I have been following closely the discussion on this subject, as for me, an old timer in the Organization since the midle of the forties, this is another proof that this is yet another “change” which unmasks the foolishness of the Organization.

    There has been a debate over the question if this is or not a “big” change.
    If we do not qualify what we mean by “big” we can easily fall into a deaf discussion.

    First of all a change can be perceived as “big” by one person but not necessarily by another one.
    To solve the issue I believe we should define what we are looking at which we end up calling “big” change.

    The “generation” subject may have several dimensions.
    I believe that the Society has made changes to at least two of those dimensions, and both have been “big”.

    The 1995 change was a change the “length” of the generation, not the “nature” of it.
    Where in the past, year after year the Organization kept calculating the length of the “generation”, in 1995, after 80 years had elapsed since its claimed beginning in 1914, it could not defend anymore this teaching.
    The purpose of the November 1995 article was to move the focus away from the “calculation” and concentrated on the “nature” of the “generation”, which had always been “negative” and therefore applied to humankind in general.
    In this way, no one could argue anymore with them on the fact that Armaghedon kept on being late to arrive.

    This time, the focus is not anymore on the “length” of the “generation” per se, but the “nature”. Although the 1995 article did in fact move the attention away from any possible calculation, since we are now entering the 13th year after the “change”, no matter what the Organization had said about not trying to make any kind of calculation, a “generation” is still a “generation” and its length cannot be extended indefinitely.
    Claiming now that the “generation” is more of a “class” than “living contemporaries” removes the last temptation to attempt to calculate the END of the “generation”.
    Any encyclopedia or dictionary in any language will tell you what a generation is, but in no case it will it remotely suggest that it is a “class”.

    The “big” change back in 1995 was that the Organization was no more committed to calculating the potential end of the “generation” in any foreseeable way.
    The “big” change today, is the most stupid thing I have ever heard: the “basic” meaning of “generation” is now “class”, whatever the class is in itself.

    If we look at motivations, in fact there is no change in the motivation of both changes!

    In 1995 it was to justify why a biblical meaning of “life length expectancy” of 70/80 years was now not anymore applicable to the incriminated “generation”, thus justifying the constant “delay” of Armaghedon, after the failure of the previous 1975 deadline.

    In today’s change, the motivation has not changed. It is just one more way to keep postponing Armaghedon until, hopefully, in one way or another, it finally happens.
    And they do that by redefining “generation” as “class”, and a “class” has no beginning nor an end, expect when the units making up the “class’ entities are gone.

    Therefore, no matter what will happen in the future, whether they will keep reporting the number of the memorial partakers or not, or re-interpreting the number of 144’000 as a “symbolic” or not, the “class” will extend to any future Armaghedon date, be it next year or next century.

    This should bring “peace” between the different opinions one can have on the question if this was a “big” change or not, at least I hope.

    Nick!

  • justhuman
    justhuman

    Indeed it is a big change. But again the WT proves itself a not trustworthy Organization. I was 17 years in 1984, and I recall there was an anxiety of that date, due to the fact that the 'generation' was close to their life span, according to the WT old light regarding generation. I do recall also 1975 hoax, I was 7 at that time. And 28 at their new understanding of the 'famous generation'. WT is only trying to buy more time. I will not discuss the Thelogical aspect of their new 'light', because I do not feel to do it so. It makes me sick.

    The major point is one: The leaders of this cult they know that they are False Prophets. They know that the destruction of Jerusalim took place in 587 B.C. They know that they don't have any Theological backround, and their dogma is build upon sand. They cannot proof their Apostolical Succesion or any connection with Christ's first Early Church. Even their founder would have been disfellowshiped for apostasy. Their are so ridiculous and they KNOW IT.

    So they just change their 'Biblical Understanding' in order to keep their slaves under their power. That is the whole point. They don't care about the 'truth'. Truth has nothing to do with the WT and their leaders. WT is just a big world wide corporation, that steels money from their poor followers in order to invest them in land developing projects, shares in Warfare industry, and who knows where else they invest the stolen money.

    WT is all about power and control over people that is the whole point and they will do the neccesary 'adjustments' in order to keep their power and control over the lifes of their blind followers.

  • observador
    observador

    Just a few extra comments:

    1. The original English edition will almost certainly bring "striking observableness", since this is a direct quote and it comes from Luke 17:20. Thanks Fisherman for pointing that out.

    2. The Portuguese translation says "classe de Joao" and, later, "Como grupo...". The Italian edition says "classe di Giovanni" and, later, "Come classe". So, it remains to be seen precisely how they'll word it in the original English.

    3. It is very important to note that in the paragraphs preceding the 15, as those who understand a little of Italian can see, they go to great lengths to explain the fact that "generation" used to apply negatively to the wicked mankind; now it applies to the holies. :)

    4. Nothing has changed in the WT attitude. They continue to use the old collective "In the past, this magazine...", and then, later, "It was thought...", without specifying WHO thought that. They never cease to use the good ol' wording tricks, do they?

    Nick, very good analysis. Thanks.

    Eagerly waiting to see the original language used in the English edition.

    Observador.

  • Awakened07
    Awakened07

    Exactly, Nick!.

    I re-read the QFR that was quoted on page 4 of this thread, and it appears that I - and I think a lot of others - have misunderstood somewhat what the 1995 change brought about. What I have been thinking all these years was that the post-1995 understanding of 'generation' meant that it could go on and on forever. However - this was not what even the Watchtower meant to say, as you can see from this snippet of the QFR (read it all, but the highlighted areas are the most important):

    On the contrary, two key things can be said about any time implied by "generation." (1) A generation of people cannot be viewed as a period having a fixed number of years, as is the case with time designations meaning a set number of years (decade or century). (2) The people of a generation live for a relatively brief period, not one of great length.

    Consequently, when the apostles heard Jesus refer to "this generation," what would they think? While we, with the benefit of hindsight, know that Jerusalem’s destruction in the "great tribulation" came 37 years later, the apostles hearing Jesus could not know that. Rather, his mention of "generation" would have conveyed to them, not the idea of a period of great length, but the people living over a relatively limited period of time. The same is true in our case.

    Remember; the above quote was in the same magazine that brought about the new light of 1995 on 'this generation'.

    In other words; what was the weakness of the 1995 understanding? It was that - although the 'generation' was now of a wishy-washy period of time - it was notindefinite as if it could go on forever, not even by the Watchtower's own definition as quoted above.

    The 2008 understanding however - coupled with the 2007 ridding of the 1935 cut-off date for the anointed - does create a 'generation' (of the anointed only) that will go on indefinitely - for ever, if need be. They have changed the very definition of what a 'generation' even means. Now it's a 'class' of anointed, and as such it can go on forever. That's why I think it's a big change.

    As others have mentioned, they'll probably have to make a change soon as to the Great Crowd as well, to make it fit in with this new doctrine.

  • oompa
    oompa

    I do hate to burst anyones bubble but if you read the included WT quote, you will see that even though WT wanted to let us down easy, and wanted us to think a generation is generally a short period of time.....1914 and ALL TIMESPAN LENGTHS WERE DELETED in relation to that date!...........oompa

    no matter what the Organization had said about not trying to make any kind of calculation, a “generation” is still a “generation” and its length cannot be extended indefinitely.

    In other words; what was the weakness of the 1995 understanding? It was that - although the 'generation' was now of a wishy-washy period of time - it was not indefinite as if it could go on forever , not even by the Watchtower's own definition as quoted above.

    The 2008 understanding however - coupled with the 2007 ridding of the 1935 cut-off date for the anointed - does create a 'generation' (of the anointed only) that will go on indefinitely - for ever, if need be. They have changed the very definition of what a 'generation' even means. Now it's a 'class' of anointed, and as such it can go on forever. That's why I think it's a big change.

    ***

    w995/1p.11par.12"TheseThingsMustTakePlace"***

    What did Jesus mean when he said: ‘This generation [Greek, ge·ne·a´] will not pass away’? Jesus had often called the contemporaneous mass of opposing Jews, including religious leaders, ‘a wicked, adulterous generation.’ (Matthew 11:16; 12:39, 45; 16:4; 17:17; 23:36) So when, on the Mount of Olives, he again spoke of "this generation," he evidently did not mean the entire race of Jews throughout history; nor did he mean his followers, even though they were "a chosen race." (1 Peter 2:9) Neither was Jesus saying that "this generation" is a period of time.

  • oompa
    oompa
    Original post: WT- As a group, those anointed comprise the present "generation" of comtemporaries who won't pass away "until all the things come to pass".*

    I thought I posted this the other day, but dont think it took....the word wizzards of WT also chose this word, COMPRISE which does not mean exlusivity....but part of....Websters says:

    Main Entry:
    com·prise Listen to the pronunciation of comprise
    Pronunciation:
    \k?m- ' priz\
    Function:
    transitive verb
    Inflected Form(s):
    com·prised ; com·pris·ing
    Etymology:
    Middle English, from Anglo-French compris, past participle of comprendre, from Latin comprehendere
    Date:
    15th century
    1 : to include especially within a particular scope <civilization as Lenin used the term would then certainly have comprised the changes that are now associated in our minds with “ developed ” rather than “ developing ” states — Times Literary Supplement> 2 : to be made up of <a vast installation, comprising fifty buildings — Jane Jacobs> 3 : compose, constitute <a misconception as to what comprises a literary generation — William Styron> <about 8 percent of our military forces are comprised of women — Jimmy Carter>
  • golf2
    golf2

    Is this how the saying goes. "The more things change the more they remain the same?" When was the last time "new light" was printed in their literature? Do they consider changes as new light?


    Golf

  • edmond dantes
    edmond dantes

    The Great Tribulation started with having to read the Watchtower every week from the very first edition and it's still a great tribulation having to plough through it even verily unto this day.

    The only true statement Judge Rutherford proclaimed was, "and there shall come to be a great profit throughout the land and the contributions shall come forth from the very furthest corners of the world and we shall invest in it's worldly stock market and partake of that revenue also and to the over flowing of the coffers there shall be no end.

    "

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