Quite absurd, but to be expected I suppose. The last explanation was so confusing that very few JWs 'got' it.
What they have set in is a teaching that cannot die out over time. This teaching is now set and will not have to come up against the forces of time.
Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change
by observador 175 Replies latest watchtower bible
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drew sagan
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Priest73
I wonder if C.T. Russel is rolling in his grave?
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blondie
*** w96 1/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***Moreover, a new figurative family is developing in heaven, consisting of Jesus Christ and his congregational bride of 144,000. (2 Corinthians 11:2) Most of these anointed ones have already died, with heavenly life in view. Some are still alive on earth. All eagerly look forward to the heavenly "marriage of the Lamb." The Bible links that marriage to the time of the approaching great tribulation—the destruction of Babylon the Great, and then the elimination of the rest of Satan’s system.—Revelation 18:2-5; 19:2, 7, 11-21; Matthew 24:21.
Does this mean that some of the 144,000 will not be in heaven to take part in the "marriage of the Lamb"?
*** w74 11/15 p. 700 par. 26 The Gathering In of Replacements for the Feast ***All the 144,000 chosen and faithful members of the Bridal congregation will there enjoy the meal with their Bridegroom.
This scripture shows that the marriage takes place after the destruction of Babylon the Great.
(Revelation 19:1-8) 19
After these things I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven. They said: "Praise Jah, YOU people! The salvation and the glory and the power belong to our God, 2 because his judgments are true and righteous. For he has executed judgment upon the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication, and he has avenged the blood of his slaves at her hand." 3 And right away for the second time they said: "Praise Jah, YOU people! And the smoke from her goes on ascending forever and ever." 4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God seated upon the throne, and said: "Amen! Praise Jah, YOU people!" 5 Also, a voice issued forth from the throne and said: "Be praising our God, all YOU his slaves, who fear him, the small ones and the great." 6 And I heard what was as a voice of a great crowd and as a sound of many waters and as a sound of heavy thunders. They said: "Praise Jah, YOU people, because Jehovah our God, the Almighty, has begun to rule as king. 7 Let us rejoice and be overjoyed, and let us give him the glory, because the marriage of the Lamb has arrived and his wife has prepared herself. 8 Yes, it has been granted to her to be arrayed in bright, clean, fine linen, for the fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the holy ones."
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GermanXJW
From page 265 of Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Victor Franz. AFAIK, this was alredax included in the first edition, so long before the change of 1995 and of course 2008:
The leadership had made numerous adjustments and now had few remaining options. There was the 1957 starting date for “this generation” proposed by members Schroeder, Klein and Suiter, but that seemed an unlikely choice. There was Albert Schroeder’s idea of applying the phrase to the ‘‘anointed’’ class (an idea that had been floating around the organization for many, many years) which offered certain advantages—there are always additional persons (some fairly young) who each year decide for the first time that they are of the “anointed” class. So this would offer an almost
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oompa
Blondie, I keep advocating that this information is not really much of a change...if at all. For sure it in no way reverts the GEN teaching back to a lifetime link with 1914 so what difference does it make if the new GEN is just anointed or keeps the GC in? You posted :
*** w74 11/15 p. 700 par. 26 The Gathering In of Replacements for the Feast ***All the 144,000 chosen and faithful members of the Bridal congregation will there enjoy the meal with their Bridegroom.
This may not say they will be in heaven before the end, but I believe that used to be the teaching. But some of the NEWER LIGHT found even in our wonderful CLIMAX book states that some of 144K will likely be on earth at Armageddon. I will find the quote and post unless you do it first ....which you will...........oompa................IS THIS NEW WTT MUCH OF A CHANGE AT ALL!!!!??????
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oompa
Thesea are not even the one I was looking for, but shows some anointed still on earth at the end....thus they are part of the Geneation...is the only difference now that it does not apply to the Great Crowd? NO because accoding to this and common understanding we know there was a great crowd at the end anyway..........But Why the HELL am I doing this as I don't believe it anymore anyway???????????????Damn....oompa
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rechap.20p.128par.30AMultitudinousGreatCrowd***The answer? Only a minority of mankind, including those of the sealed 144,000 still remaining in the flesh and a great crowd of other sheep who will "stand," that is, survive with them.—Compare Jeremiah 35:19; 1 Corinthians 16:13.
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rechap.38p.277PraiseJahforHisJudgments!***. Similarly, the time must come when all remaining ones on earth of the 144,000 will have been sealed individually as belonging to Jehovah. (2 Timothy 2:19) This will be when the Lamb’s wife will have fully prepared herself—the great majority of the 144,000 having already received their heavenly reward and those still on earth having been finally approved and sealed as faithful ones.
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Confession
Is it possible that this announcement will encourage still more to claim anointment? Look for an increase of partakers in the coming years.
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blondie
oompa, my point is that this means that some of the anointed will not be at the wedding. Considering that they are part of the bride, it is hard for me to imagine a bride wanting to miss her own wedding. As to the remnant on earth being the "generation,' it is hardly much of a change compared to the one in 1995 when the 1914 generation was eliminated. I think it is just their way of explaining why there were 245 more anointed counted last year and that 4 of the GB are under 60 and were born after 1935 (a point about 1935 being the end of the calling of the anoined that was already eliminated in a recent QFR). The number of jws partaking has changed little over the last ten years....which makes some jws wonder. So the reminder of the explanation that some will still be alive is a CYA measure. I don't think they imagined that over 8,500 would be still hanging on. As long as there is one alive on earth, the end can be still future. If they are saying some of the remnant have to be on earth when the end comes.....then there has to be new anointed to prolong the end the WTS predicts.
Blondie
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GermanXJW
This is not an announcement, this is a subsentence in an article. I wonder if there is anything further in this issue.
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Jourles
This is not an announcement, this is a subsentence in an article.
Ah, but do you remember how the last change in '95 was presented? Once sentence was all it took to make the change.
It's interesting that Schroeder suggested this very change and Ray recorded it in CoC. Is he still alive today?
This is how I still see it ---
- GB is gradually dying off.
- To maintain control of the org, the GB must continuously be present on earth.
- Change anointed doctrine to allow younger ones to become potential GB members.
- Change generation doctrine to say that the anointed will still be on earth when armageddon comes.
You cannot leapfrog in these steps. C&P from prior post:
In my view, this new generation change is simply for the GB's benefit. For the r&f, this doctrinal change means nothing. It serves no purpose, has no benefit, or gives the r&f any hope of seeing armageddon come any quicker than before. Prior to this, the carrot on the stick was using the original idea of the generation to keep the r&f on their toes looking forward to paradise coming "soon." But once 1995 came and went, morale took a turn for the worst. The GB was caught in a catch-22 on the 1995 change. On one hand, they had to alter it because of their interpretation of a generation consisting of roughly 80 years. 1914 to 1995 was 81 years long - roughly the span of their idea of a "generation." But on the other hand, they risked losing some members and alienating others with the change. Which was more important from their perspective? They had to maintain that they were still God's special channel dispensing the proper food at the right time. To let the old understanding of the generation continue on, they risked an even greater danger - mass questioning and confusion. By nipping it sooner rather than later, they kept hold of their control over the r&f.
Now the question on every r&f's mind is, who are these new guys that are becoming GB members and why are they so young? Again, placing a date on a doctrine is a tricky matter, especially when it turns out you're on the wrong end of it. The WTS set 1935 up for itself. 72 years later, I'm sure they would be hard pressed to find a competent brother of that age or older to offer any cohesive ideas and actually bring them to the table. So what can they do to get around this issue and to bring in some young blood without being questioned over it? Let's change the doctrine again! If the generation now points towards the anointed ones, and that generation will see armageddon come, the GB has just now solved their problem in regards to its future leadership. 1935 will go away. It must go away - it carries no relevance to this new thinking.
The GB stays in control. Fairly simple. The r&f can talk about it all they want and what it means for them, but in the end it is just another talking point in the WT and future book study publications. It is not a significant change whatsoever for the r&f - no matter how they disect it or read into it.
I gotta hand it to the GB. I knew they would eventually have to get rid of 1935 and I always thought that the "replacement" idea was kind of weak, but changing the idea of the generation, yet again, was a good business move. It keeps the men at the top in power indefinitely. I mean really, how many elderly anointed ones do you know that fall away due to unfaithfulness? I never knew one or even heard of one.