Thank you, Nvrgbk.
If Your Spouse Told The Elders On U, Is That a Marital or Religious Problem
I agree with NVR, it is total BS when a spouse ratts you out to the elders about what you as a married couple do in bed!! It sucks. My ex wife over 10 years divorced still a JW tried to say to elders where we had moved to that I forced her to have oral sex, both her to me and me to her. It was a lie as I only did what she wanted to do too. Would never force anything on anyone! She was having flashbacks to what her witness uncles did to her as a 12 year old and at age 37 was just remembering stuff about it and taking it out on me! So then , what does she do, tells me casually," Oh! I invited the elders over to talk about what we do in bed together. They are on their way over now." "Holy Shiskabobs I said! What the hell did you do that for? I'm not going to talk with guys I don't even know, about what my wife and I do in bed." So as I drove out of there I waved at the elders coming up to the house. Now Minimus, you tell me, was that showing submission of my damned ex wife not even telling me she invited the elders over to talk about this??? Believe me, this is where it crosses over from a religious problem to marital problem, in a very real and fast way!!!
Then , as if that wasn't enough she starts calling longtime guy friends in the witnesses, guys I knew for 20 years and telling them, " My husband makes me feel like I'm being molested when he does oral to me." WTF was that? My friend, that was vindictive mental illness at it's ugly head best. So Minimus,according to the current witness beliefs from what I understand it is a private personal thing what a husband and wife do in their bedroom. If a witness wife goes to the elders with that, she is betraying her marital vows of caring for her mates emotional well being. There is nothing in the societies publications that currently says a mate should rat on a husband or wife for doing oral on them! That's bull$hit!! Total! True according to Ray Franz from 1972 to 1977, the insane organization made it a dfing offense, but remember the light got brighter ? And whalah! Miracles of miracles, it became a private thing between you and your mate! What they don't recognize is, it always should have been that way and to leave people alone! O.K. My rant is over, nothing personal Minimus, but as you can see, I've been to hell and back with this one, I speak from experience!! Peace out, Mr. Flipper
You can't separate the two. A witness marriage means following the rule book more than being married to another person. So in essence, you might be legally married to a human being but you are emotionally and mentally married to a corporation. If your emotions are tied up more in the corporation then your loyalty will be first to them and you will report the deed as your duty - if your emotion is tied more solidly with your spouse then you would seek resolution with the person first.
Life as a witness cannot mean separation since every move you make must be in sync with the society and it's guidelines - right from how you act before the marriage, who you marry, what job you take and how you raise your kids. Your life is not your own therefore, not yours to think about.
...all that being said - I look at it as a marital issue since if there is no trust and faith in the marriage then it, as with everything and anyone else in your life, exists only on condition of being a JW .
If a wife really, truly loved her husband and he asked her to perform oral sex, a faithul JW wife wouldn't do it.
That is not the same issue. If the husband did perform oral sex on the wife, and she decided it was
wrong, her telling the elders that her husband went south, then it would be a fair comparison to
ratting on a husband for something else.
Doing or not doing something at home can be from religious conditioning. But the wife who resists
oral sex is conditioned to believe it is WRONG WRONG WRONG. Still, most of them can talk to their
spouse about it instead of the elders.
I don't know how you could keep performing or receiving oral sex if your spouse was so sure it's wrong
and talked to you about it. The forced act would be like abuse to them. Performing it upon someone
who hates it would be a totally wasted effort, also.
On to the main topic. I feel that turning your spouse in to the elders for anything is really a marital issue.
The problem isn't so simple to categorize when the spouse thinks they have to squeal to save their spouse's
everlasting life. That is why I don't engage in JWD posting or reading books by former member directly
in front of my wife. Still, she knows that going to the elders is a trust issue because we have had that talk,
and she decides to avoid asking me about any potential "apostate" activity.
There is also the spouse who doesn't violate the trust, but gets pressure from the elders. "Tell us what your
husband is up to. Don't you want to protect the congregation, and help your husband?" That can be too
much cult pressure. The posted question is not easy to put in one simple answer.
In my case it was a religious issue. Keep in mind that we were all trained and brainwashed that apostasy is the worst sin( you are demonized)
The faithful JW's conscience (or wife in this example) will eventually kick in and will turn you in to the elders because the watchtower comes before anything else.
Betraying the watchtower is like betraying the almighty God.
26 years down the toilet thanks to the watchtower.
Mrs Flipper here. I think it's a mental health issue. The ratfink spouse has been brainwashed to put the watchtower above her mate. It's not much different than if a spouse becomes delusional due to a mental condition and acts against the spouse thinking it's the right thing to do. Being brainwashed is a pretty serious mental condition.
I didn't know about God being the 3rd marriage partner in JW marriages. I've been away from religion a long time - this is really shocking to me. How can that even be a marriage?! Mr Flipper is my # 1 family on this planet - he will always come first in my loyalties. So say I, anyway.
I think I would follow Mrs.J's advise and kick the "devil" out of this person. Freaking sick.
One more point. It doesn't seem like much of a marriage if a spouse picks a bunch of lying perverts over a sacred marraige. Why is that so hard to understand?
I never experienced this but it looks like a religious problem since in a normal religion no one would go to the priests to grass out a spouse for one of many silly reasons such as celebrating birthdays or wearing a cross thus becoming an "apostate".
O.K., I'm going to risk it and tell my story.
I was very upset that my husband was going out EVERY week-end night until 2:30 - 4:00am. He is not baptized but he's in the school and has a Bible study with a young boy. l was not just upset that he was no longer spending time with me, I was devastated because I felt he was leading a double life and was hypocritical.
After 8 months of it- long months, I told him that it bothered my conscience. I asked him if he would talk to the elders. He told me that he would not but he didn't have a problem with me talking to them if I had a problem with it. So I did.
Flash forward 11 months. I went to my husband who was still doing the exact same things and apologized. I told him that my loyalty should have been to him, not the organization and that I had been too brainwashed to realize it. That's when I told him that I no longer cared if he gave talks and hung out in bars because I no longer believed that the JW's represent Jehovah anyway.
He didn't seem to have a problem with me talking to them but I still feel like crap. To me it was a loyalty issue and I should have been loyal to my husband. Live and learn.