If Your Spouse Told The Elders On U, Is That a Marital or Religious Problem

by minimus 54 Replies latest jw friends

  • minimus

    Flipper, regarding a wife's feeling that having oral sex is wrong based upon what the WT. teaches (and they still teach this), if she wanted to go to the elders and confess her feelings, this would not be in violation of her marital vows to her husband----at least not from a JW perspective. Regarding her not telling you that the elders were coming over, this wouldn't, from a JW perspective be seen as unsubmissive----just not good manners. She was obviously hypocritical, wanting to engage in oral sex but blaming you. It sounds like she was damaged by her past more than anything else.

    The problem your ex had was she was screwed up by what her uncles did to her.

  • minimus

    This thread is quite interesting.

    When a parent murders his own daughter because she was the victim of rape and the entire family goes along with it, is it because there's a "family" problem or is it because these villagers were taught to believe that the dishonor to the family had to be avenged?

    When a JW finks on a family member it's because they are taught to believe that not only are they doing the right, proper thing but they are HELPING the "sinner".

    Jehovah's Witnesses are a CULT! They are not normal thinkers. Everything that a devout JW believes comes from Jehovah God's (the Organization) words. One MUST be loyal to God first. It's a no brainer.

  • changeling



  • flipper

    O.K. Minimus- I see what you are saying in that the ex did not break marital " vows". What I meant is she showed an extreme lack of caring about the confidentiality of our relationship by going to these elders without telling me anything about it. That was wrong. Also you mentioned about the societies current view of oral sex between married people as still being wrong. I beg to differ from things I have read. In the " Pay Attention to Yourselves and to the Flock" book which I know you are familiar with having been an elder it says, and I quote:

    Pg.142 " While the Christian congregation is not in a position to give direction as to all SEXUAL MATTERS concerning the marriage bed, individuals may be advised that in their intimate relations, as in all other aspects of Christian life, they need to display kindness, love, and concern for each other. " It goes on and says, " While perverted practices are wrong, if within a marriage one is involved in such, it does not mean that he or she would necessarily lose service privileges. If such conduct becomes known to the elders, they would need to consider: Is the practice recent or ongoing, or is it something that ocurred in the past and is definitely conquered ? Is the individual promoting such conduct as a life style ? Is his attitude one of remorse ? If he is sincerely repentant and the situation is not generally known , it may not be necessary to remove privileges of service. "

    So in that quote I read nowhere that it says a wife has the responsibility to go to the elders if her husband is wanting oral sex. It initially states , " the christian congregation is not in a position to give direction as to all sexual matters. " So it's up to the couple to keep it loving then. I think the elders main concern is the promoting of such within the congregation. The conduct would never become known to the elders if marriage mates were considerate of each others emotional needs. It is none of the elders business is what I'm saying. It even stated you may not even lose privileges. Yet, you seem to be treating this as an abhorrent sin, Minimus.

    The reason there is so much confusion about the societies view on oral sex is because it changes and waffles it's view constantly, depending on which elder you talk to. When I was in this cult, I aked this question to several different elders, and you know what their response was? Some said, no, you shouldn't do it, some said, " Oh! That's a personal conscious decision to be made by a man and his wife!" So which is it ? Both? No wonder people in that religion are so confused!

    So, it may or may not interest you to know, to appease my ex- wife, after I thought about it awhile, I did meet with her and the elders to discuss the situation. And the elders counseled us saying, " Well brother Flipper you should consider your wife is sensitive in this area". I said, " I understand. Nothing is or has ever been forced on her to do anything she did not want. " And then they counseled her and said, " Sister Ex-Flipper, you know your husband is a normal man with normal physical needs. If he does not get satisfaction through the marriage, you certainly don't want him looking elsewhere do you? " Then they said, " Sister Ex-Flipper have you considered getting professional help to deal with the anger over what your uncle's did to you ? " She just angrily replied, " I don't need professional help. It's everybody elses fault I'm this way." And the look she gave the elders was one of hating they asked her that. So there you go, how do we help those who don't want to be helped? Answer, you can't.

    So I agree with your final take to me Minimus. Yes, the ex was seriously mentally disturbed by what had happened by the uncles, but she refused any help, thus contributing directly to the marriages demise. So I have no need for a religion which intrudes where they have no right to belong. My witness relatives were even horrified by what the ex did, going to the elders like that. My at the time 70 yearold mother said, " If the truth was known most of those elders wives do it to their husbands and vice versa". I thought that was funny. Anyway I respect you Minimus, just disagreed on the coming out to elders about this aspect of a married couples life. Peace out to you, Mr. Flipper

  • truthseeker

    For me, it's a religious/marital problem.

    When I got married, I didn't realize my wife was already "married" to the Watchtower. Now, she has two "heads" in one sense of the word, me and the "faithful and discreet slave."

    She has sometimes threatened to turn me in when I tell her how I feel about the religion, but I think she knows how much damage it would cause.

    I love my wife, just wish she could make a clean break.

    She knows I visit JW forums but doesn't get involved.

  • avidbiblereader

    I believe it is both,

    If she says she truly believes in the Bible and according to 1 Cor 11:3 and 14:34,35, she is to answer to her Husband, then Christ, then to God, never the BOE or FDS or an organization. The organization has help to usurp the husband, then Christ and then ultimately God

    As this happens it is a religious issue and now it has become a marital issue as she can no longer deal with her husband but must use outsiders to talk to, cope with, she has left her friend and lover to turn him in and for what??? Loyality to other men.


  • moshe

    Religious- had she told the garbage man that you had read Crisis of Conscience, he would have said " So what?- are you a crazy lady or just plain nuts?" Most JW's just don't get it, but the men really aren't head of their home- the WT Society is and if you cross some imaginary line of improper conduct they can convince most loyal JW wives that you are an evil satan-worshiping apostate fit for only death at Armagedddon. Since the WT society has already passed the death sentence on you, what wife wants to invest any love and emotional energy on a dead man? The marriage is over for all intents and purposes.

  • zack

    Any issue that involves your marriage is marital by definition. More to your point, and I know how dubs think having been one all my life, if my mate felt she had to "tell" on me for being a naughty boy and hangin' with you 'postates, how could I possibly trust her with anything after that?

  • Honesty

    Well it happened to me.

    I viewed it as a marital issue. One that could not be overcome. *SEE YA!*

    Happened to me, too. That's why I am single today. Loyalty is a very important aspect of marriage and since my ex spouse had more loyalty and devotion to a bunch of octogenarians in New York then she should start sleeping with them.

  • LoverOfTruth

    If you can't trust your Spouse who should be your best friend, the the marriage is doomed.

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