showed wife the new km article. bad decision.

by freeme 61 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  sass_my_frass

  Hey there freeme, and welcome! It isn't as bad as you think. She's on alert now but this isn't something that you can keep inside forever and remain healthy. In a relationship, both parties need to be able to express themselves and be heard. She needs to toughen up about what you talk about. This is crucial for your future together; you may not know what you want now, but you should be aiming for a relationship in which each respects the other, whatever their choices are. Be gentle, because you're the one changing the relationship from what she thought she was getting into (the old three-cord marriage) to something she's been taught to despise, but whatever it takes, aim for honesty and openness from each of you.

  You're a step ahead of her because you know where she's coming from; you know that now she's going to be anxious about you becoming an apostate and not supporting her. Every day, be loving, gentle and kind. Make her love you so much that she chooses you over them.
• 

  drew sagan

  freeme
  
  Hang in there man! You're going to make it out of this.
  
  Please read these two posts that I made a good while back while I was trying to help my wife realize that it wasn't the truth.
  
  This first post was right at a point where I was about to just totally give up. I had no idea what I could do to help my wife. She seems so controlled by the fear the Watchtower had planted in her that I felt powerless against it. It was at this point that I came up with a very bad idea on how to try to get her out that I am so glad I never tried:
  
  What appears like my only way out
  
  But after all of that nonsense and loss of hope, it was only a very short time later that she came around and began to see the light:
  
  The time has arrived....
  
  Sometimes these things appear to us much worse than they really are. One big problem is that you yourself are suffering form many of the problems of mentally leaving a cult. Looking back I can see how at many different times I was trying to help my wife see the light and I personally hadn't even seen it fully yet!
  
  Take your time with this. There are some battles you will not win, but that is ok. Remember that there still may be lots you need to work through first on your own before you even able to start helping other friends and family.
• 

  choosing life

  Freeme,

  I am living with a husband who believes and if I try to challange his beliefs, things go bad very quickly. I have faded and don't attend anymore. I have found that it is better to just not talk about it. I try to talk about things we agree on and both enjoy. You have gotten some very good advice already. Just lay low and be there for her if and when she starts to doubt.

  There are a lot of changes coming up in the jw religion. Maybe her eyes will start to open, maybe not. What you each believe about religion really has nothing to do with making your marriage work. Don't let the society take your wife away. Show her you love her and live for her. That is pretty hard for most women to resist.

  Sincerely, Choosing Life
• 

  TheListener

  Welcome Freeme.

  My wife is an active dub. So are my kids.

  My situation is so similar to yours.

  When I first started doubting and wondering my wife was angry. She didn't want me asking any questions or discussing anything with her. She told me to ask older witnesses whom I trusted or to write the Society with my questions. I refused telling her it was my business and I didn't want to involve the congregation. Besides, I said, what can they say that they haven't printed in the past 125years.

  Each step of what turned out to be a fade cause greater grief in my life. She freaked out at every point in the process.

  One night I sat her down and told her some of the things I had found out. Boy oh boy was she angry. She told me right then that I was not upbuilding and to never speak of such things again. She did tell me, however, that she wouldn't leave me if I left the truth.

  Well, we still have our discussions but they're not deep and I don't beat up her beliefs. We have this unspoken agreement not to discuss the elephant in the room.

  Most of our arguments are over the children and their upbringing.

  I guess if I had any one piece of advice it would be this: Make sure you are happy and then make sure your wife is happy. In that order.

  Feel free to pm me anytime. I have cried the same cry you have.
• 

  Gill

  Unless you are actually prepared for the kind of vehement reaction you got from your wife you should NEVER challenge the 'Faith' of others.

  Do you remember the reaction of the Muslims over the Belgian cartoons of the Prophet Mohommad!???

  Challenging someone's 'faith' challanges the part of the brain that remembers where a person left their car keys, where they live, infact their identity, and challanging such 'certainties' simply challanges their grasp and reality of life. This is why they become so angry and agitated.

  It is much simpler to just ask probing questions that do not challange thier belief structure so that slowly they begin to wake up themselves!

  Personally, with my own parents, I always go for the immeadiate challenge to annoy them and get that 'crazed fanatic' look in their eyes. I was a very good child and teenager who never caused them one iota of trouble. All I ever received was ridicule and pressure to do more for the bORg from them. I now aim to annoy and irritate them at every opportunity! BUT....I know what their reaction is and I know I am pushing them to the limit to shun me, which so far they still have not done.....WHY? Because I can flatten every argument they make for the WTBTS and leave them speechless and dumbfounded at Every Single Visit!

  They may well stay in the bOrg.....they have a right to. But they will never sit in a meeting comfortably again without my words still ringing in their ears!

  They can deny they have doubts till they are blue in the face but I KNOW they now have doubts!

  You can't dish out this kind of treatment to a spouse.....only someone who you don't live with! A spouse needs far gentler treatment! Good Luck!
• 

  sinis

  What has worked very well for me, similar situation as you, is doing your own OPEN research. Get the bible find something you want to learn more about ("truth" finding) etc., and use other sources in conjunction with the WTS publications. My wife asked what I was doing and I told her I was doing what the bible suggested (I think it was epercurians?) and made sure of all things. I would purposely write notes, highlight pertinent paragraphs, etc. The kicker to her was when I started researching the origins of the bible, made some notes that catholicism is false religion (used old WTS articles) and then left open the book I was doing research on that indicated that one of the original church fathers Eusebius was the one who decided what was cannon, and what was not. Question I wrote on my notes was if the JW's view the catholics as being false from its inception then why do they adhere to and use the fruits of the Catholic labors? Why do they use the bible when it was compiled by false religion? I caught my wife reading many of my notes and referencing the pages I marked. We still have our moments, but overall she doesn't go to meetings and we can even have semi civil religious conversations now, whereas she used to shut down. Perhaps picking a topic that she holds dear to and research the hell out it of using both WTS pubs and "worldly" pubs. Take notes, leave your stuff in the open for her to peruse when you are not around. You might be surprised, and you won't have to initiate a discussion. She may ask you what you are doing and you can tell her you are doing exactly what the ancient Christians did. This may peak her interest and get the mental ball rolling... Good Luck in your quest, its tough but doable - just need patience - time erodes everything...
• 

  sweet pea

  Freeme, so sorry that you're suffering, it must be a terrible burden on your shoulders right now.
  
  I was your wife for the last 10 years. I have always been vehemently loyal to the 'truth' and would NEVER have thought of leaving (although secretly I had many issues I was not comfortable with - the way disfellowshipped ones were to be treated, birthdays, making WT history equal certain scriptures etc, etc.).
  
  I knew my husband (Besty) didn't have the same love for the 'truth' as me but I ignored it, didn't have any other choice as I loved him too much and would never have left him over this - I was just sad that we weren't singing from the same song sheet! I thought my life would be so much better if I had a spiritual head. Credit to him, although he resisted going to the meetings many times, which used to really bug me, he never assaulted my beliefs - if he had of done I know it would've descended into a huge argument along the lines of what you have experienced.
  
  However, there is hope for you and your wife.
  
  4 months ago I was at the end of my tether. With two young children I was physically and emotionally frazzled. The love, help and support from the congregation was almost non-existent - this after 36 years of being a faithful witness. I was exhausted from the routine of the 'truth', and feeling uncomfortable with thoughts of the future and bringing up children to be 'different' and deprived of all the things their peers would be experiencing.
  
  Besty chose this time to slip me a doubt - the subject of our mediator (except he's not as you know, he's only the mediator for the 144,000). I checked this out for myself on www.jwfacts.com and the rest is history.
  
  He and I are now singing from the same song sheet and are closer than we've ever been.
  
  So, do not lose hope but do not attack her beliefs. Wait for your moment and be gentle. In the meantime love her like you've never loved her before - as someone else said - make it so that she never wants to leave you.
  
  We are with you in this.
• 

  freeme

  again! im overwhelmed! ive read all your posts and they show much experience and wonderful advise. THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN!

  i think the first thing to do is to keep that stuff low for some longer time. maybe ive planted a seed, maybe not. maybe i shouldnt care too much about that. i feel the same urge to tell her the things ive learned and discovered like i felt when i was a good dubby and told it ppl in service (mmh... maybe this one is even stronger...). but it doesnt work that way. i have to rethink that.

  one thing i thought the whole night about is that shes literally not me. shes not that logical, sceptical person i am. i always was that way. even when i was a zealous dub. its easy for others to make me listen to their arguments. its a principle of me. i like thinking out-of-the-box. it scared my mother when i was like 10 years old. i told her once that we "cant determine whether the world we see really exist. maybe this chair isnt existing" :D she never understood it :D i told her that the chance that the chair really does not exist is very very low in my opinion but that we just cant know 100%. "but i can see it! its there!". haha :) my mum! at least my wife knows what i mean with that since matrix the movie :) what i mean with all that is that my wife is a very emotional person... even for a woman. i cant get through to her with my logic. it just not her way of thinking. i knew that before but didnt want to listen to myself...

  about that professional help i could seek... yeah i thought about that too. maybe ill go for that soon. next time i visit my doctor i may ask him what he can recommend me to do.

  @jgnat

  im very impressed by your post, jgnat! every word of it is so true. yes, i know her reply before i ask her something critical about the org. my jw mind is intact. i can defense the org myself before others if have to. just like she does. and i can see her real self in many things in daily life. shes still the same person i fell in love with. but theres also that other side you describe. and everytime i only scratch on a religious topic her real character makes place for her jw side.

  the funny thing is that in many things she more unchristian than me. believe it or not:
  - she has non-believing friends, i dont
  - she gets angry about human error in the local congregation, for me that never was a problem
  - she also missing meetings
  - she does fewer service than i do
  - she studies fewer than i do

  she only attends more meetings than me. but theres a difference. she feels bad about it. she wants doing more (she blames me for not pushing her - bad husband!) its different for me. i wouldnt have a problem not to attend any meeting nor going to service anymore... but i do it because i cant bear the pressure atm. im doing it for humans.

  btw: 2 weeks ago i had a #4 talk and since im a communicative person i never had a problem with that stuff. what happened? everyone was happy about my wonderful talk and i the elders want a visit with me. my cong desperately needs a new MS and in the past i did many privileges and nearly was appointed. i guess they think they can reactivate me. for my own surprise i said yes to the visit. (before i told them twice that i dont want it... THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE I SAID "NO" TO ANYTHING LIKE THAT!) i guess it will be a visit like other before. elders talk, i say almost nothing... because when i would say something the chances are that i say something wrong...

  have a nice day all of you!
  freeme
• 

  timmycat

  She feels like you're attacking her faith and they see little horns coming out of you're head. Sometimes it is best to just come clean. Living on egg shells only makes things worse at least if you're honest about it she and you know where you stand. You have a battle on whatever way you go, so may be best to face each other honestly.
• 

  jgnat

  Good, you already recognize when she is in one personality and not the other. This is key to knowing when you can bring up subjects that cause her anxiety. IF YOU DO bring up a controversial subject, do it when she is most herself. If you see her start to freeze up, quickly change the subject. Tell a joke or something, "You always...." and say something true about herself. That way, you plant the seed without bringing the cult personality to the fore.

  It is also good that she is more "worldly" than you. But don't point out the hypocrisy. That might make her feel guilty and bring the cult personality forward again. Could you recruit some of her "worldly" friends to help you? Have them invite her out to events on meeting nights?

  she only attends more meetings than me. but theres a difference. she feels bad about it. she wants doing more

  Hmmm, I struggle with that one, too. One of the things that Steve Hassan suggests is to "make peace" with the cult personality. Perhaps after a warm cuddly Sunday morning, you can encourage her to go, that she will "enjoy" being with the "friends". Promise to clean the house while she is gone. Greet her warmly when she gets back, and ask her how the meeting went.

  A small trick I've used lately is I make sure I have lots of fun while hubby is at the meeting. I am supportive of his attendance, but I make sure he knows in subtle ways that I am enjoying myself too.

  I've also picked up his signals when he's had enough of the society's BS for a while. He asks to go to the movies on a meeting night. I calm down his guilt by saying, "Does it really matter if you miss one meeting? Jehovah knows your heart. Surely He understands."