For Christians: Grace vs. Forgiveness (page 2)

Terry

Here is dry land.

Here is water.

If you fall in the water and don't know how to swim, you'll drown.

Plop!

Help! Help!

I told you not to go into the water until you could swim!

Help! Help!

You and all your kids will have to drown for thousands of years until I pull somebody out because I LOVE you.

But, they'll have to say, "Please" with just the right kind of believable smile---or, I'll let them drown too!

Glug! Glug!

Hey--Mister, why didn't you pull him out?

Aww, I warned him and he wouldn't listen.

I think I agree. I am sure I at least agree that Christians who understand grace do not slave for salvation, and that they are free. The part I am not clear on is the concept of "salvation by wisdom." Maybe you can explain more when you aren't on Short Mode.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

AuldSoul

Terry,

So that I won't be accused again of pedantry in asserting forum rules, would you say your posts here are on topic? Please be honest.

I'd love to know how you'd rationalize that considering the fact that the topic specifies this thread is for Christians and you claim to be a non-believer. The initial post specified a request for Scriptures to go along with posts, and invited only Christian perspectives on the issue. Would you say your views are Christian perspectives?

I would like for this thread to be a discussion among Christians who post on the forum. Are you going to continue making a nuisance of yourself with your boorish behavior?

BTW, your little atheistic story you wrote flatly rejects most of the Scriptures I cited. I doubt you even read my initial post and I am nearly certain you didn't read the Scriptures I cited. Stop begging for attention and respect where you give none.

AuldSoul

But, they'll have to say, "Please" with just the right kind of believable smile---or, I'll let them drown too!

Here's where your story defies the Scriptures, Terry, in case you wondered. There is NOTHING we can do to earn salvation. Nothing. Not even smile in just the right kind of believable way.

That was one of the most shocking things I discovered when studying the issue. As a JW I was always taught there must be more, it can't be that simple, yadda-yadda, but it IS taught in the Bible as being JUST that simple. Anyone who wants it, gets it. Plain and simple.

AuldSoul

Does any Christian have comments to add?

Sad emo

Good post AuldSoul - i think you got it all covered!!

Maybe some input for you on blasphemy against the holy Spirit which might help. Since its the working of the Holy Spirit within one's life which imparts grace, to blaspheme against him is to do what the Pharisees did in the Scriptures you quoted - you deny his power and/or attribute it to something else - so you effectively put yourself outside of that grace and forgiveness - hence the 'unforgivable sin'.

I'll try and have another read through tomorrow evening when I'm more awake, my brain's just about done for today lol!

Have you read "What's so Amazing About Grace?" by Philip Yancey? If not, I definitely recommend it - very readable and straight to the heart!

AuldSoul

I haven't Emo, but thanks for the tip.

Also, thanks for the added point on the Spirit. I will do more research on that one.

smellsgood

Terry you are madly evangelical aren't you? :)

Auld Soul, just referring to the topic, I didn't know that grace and forgiveness were in a fist fight, or at odds. :)

I think you could say that grace is something that is given and cannot be earned, and forgiveness is the act of sort of cancelling out what was done wrong. I don't know, did you want me to use the bible? I'm just going with my understanding of such things.

Rosalee

Adam and Eve had free will and chose to sin ... becoming unrighteous.

You liberaly use the word 'grace'. Do you actually mean 'undeserved kindness'? And if so, why not use the words 'undeserved kindness'?

We do not earn salvation .. it is a gift but as you know 'faith without works is dead.'

Actually ... Terry's demonstration was cute ... credit where credit is due. If one does not believe in the Bible I can see where they would feel this way.

eclipse

You liberaly use the word 'grace'. Do you actually mean 'undeserved kindness'? And if so, why not use the words 'undeserved kindness'?
We do not earn salvation .. it is a gift but as you know 'faith without works is dead.'

We know this is what the Society says.

Why do you continue to parrot what you are taught? I'm not being harsh...I'm saying this with kindness.

We only want you to think for yourself.

But I am going offtopic.

Grace is a better translation of ''undeserved kindness''.

Undeserved kindness is what the society dishes out because they treat the R&F like slave labour, and speak to them(you) using such condescending language.

For Christians: Grace vs. Forgiveness

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