The simplest explanation of 607 BCE

by Doug Mason 116 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Terry

  The WTS is obliged to work backwards from 1914, creating many points of failure for the Seven Times doctrine.

  • 1914 went to 606 due to including a year zero. When 0 was excluded the WTS was forced to move to 607.
  • 607 is seventy years from 537 yet Babylon was destroyed in 539
  • Dan 4 was fulfilled by Nebuchadnezzar, there is no precendence for it to have a second fulfillment
  • Jerusalem was destroyed 587 not 607. This period of 50 years fits perfectly with prophecy

  I have done an article on it too at http://jehovah.net.au/607.html

  Well written it is, too!
• 

  5go

  Has anyone been DF'ed specifically for not accepting the 607 BCE year?

  I came close to something simular. I questioned the original sin of adam and the correct name of Jesus. I wouldn't let them win. The key to getting out of being dfed is saying you will wait on jehovah to answer it correct your doubt ( GB to get it' head out of it's @$$ ) they pretty much leave you alone after that though you must reswear aliegance to the GB and they pray you keep going to meetings.
• 

  Arthur

  Watchtower apologists are always claiming that there are these "celebrated scholars" that no one knows about. The WT has no problem printing full color photos of the Governing Body members in the year book, but for some reason, the New World Translation Committee as well as the other "celebrated scholars" must be kept anonymous out of some notion of discreetness. I guess these celebrated scholars are some sort of secret weapon that the "Faithful Slave" is using to ward off the venemous propoganda of the evil slave.

  It reminds me of how the Iraqi Information Minister claimed that Sadam had a secret weapon that he was going to use to defeat the invading American forces. Turns out, the secret weapon was . . .well, an empty palace that smelled like b.o.
• 

  scholar

  Doug Mason

  Post 219

  Simple! Celebrated WT scholars have wisely chosen an event based chronology rather than contentious regnal based approach.In the case of choosing a pivotal date for the OT it was wisely thought that such a date should correspond with an event that is well described in the Bible and ancient history and could be dated with astronomical sources.

  There is considerable divergence bewteen biblical and secular sources in many key areas so where such difference is found, scholars must then choose which sources are to be preferred. The Bible must always take precedence over the secular sources especially where an omission or difference of fact is found. Do not you agree?

  I have been studying chronology, theology and philosophy for too long to be deceived by anyone and for starters I have graduated with a Master of Arts in Studies of Religion so I have thought and researched 'outside the square'. I am in awe of the 'celebrated WT scholars' and their precious gift of a simple Bible chronology rooted in prophecy and alone in being faithful to God's inspired Word.

  scholar JW
• 

  Chameleon

  wow, i've seen you in old threads.

  you're quite infamous.
• 

  Dansk

  For the newer ones here,

  I don't know if you've seen any of the many other tedious threads clearly showing Scholar how wrong he is but there are numeous ones in the archives. AlanF, especially, went to great pains and lengths to dispute all Scholar's postings. Scholar is here to cause mischief and nothing more. So many of us have asked him direct questions and he refuses to answer. One has to be an absolute moron or just plain evil not to grasp so much evidence - yet Scholar continues.

  Having been through so much with my own family regarding Watchtower I know how much the misinformation Scholar posts is troublesome. Newbies, especially, can be quite nervous, sensitive and fearful at seeing such posts because they are still vulnerable at leaving Watchtower and want to know the truth. Scholar continues to promulgate Watchtower lies as truth and signs himself as both scholar and JW. If he were a true scholar he should have the grace to accept his beliefs are wrong (and that's putting it mildly). If he is a JW he should know darn well that he shouldn't even be here. So, clearly Scholar is a liar and a mischief-maker. He isn't worthy of entering into debate with because he steadfastly refuses to accept the truth even though it continues to hit him square between the eyes.

  Scholar is supposedly residing in Australia and our regular poster Ozzie offered to meet up with him and discuss the matters he posts here. Scholar refused. I have asked Scholar to direct me to university papers he has submitted but he ignored my request - as he constantly ignores anyone who can undermine his credibility.

  My sole purpose for posting this is to warn the newer ones amongst us. Having had first hand experience of how Watchtower dogma injures people, whether it's by using "Bible History" (which is, of course, Watchtower-fabricated history) or by marking, shunning, etc., it is imperative that people such as Scholar are highlighted for what they are. Don't be misled, Scholar is dangerous! He preys on the sensitve and less informed here as many other Watchtower apologists before him have done.

  Ian
• 

  Dansk

  Here's an example of what I mean regarding Scholar's foolishness and mischief in spite of the evidence:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/48311/1.ashx

  Ian
• 

  hillary_step

  At this stage I am quite sure that Scholar knows full well that the 607BCE/1914CE dogma peddled by the WTS is so punched full of holes as to be untenable.

  That he is moved to toe the Company Line, despite being soundly and continually thrashed in debate, indicates to me that he is determined to be loyal to the WTS and wait for 'new light' from Brooklyn, at which stage he will become equally and mindlessly loyal to their latest interpretation of history.

  WTS chronology is doomed, but this matters not one iota when the WTS has adherents like Scholar who are willing to switch off their brains in favor of some misguided appeal to Organizational 'loyalty'. Even a complete reversal in teaching is no barrier as these faithful ones, who like a whore with no hope cling to their pimps while they beat them.

  Their only brief is to avoid showing any cracks in faith before 'apostates'. If they need to lie to do this, they will. If they need to manipulate the facts, they will. If they need to switch off compassion, this is no issue, as long as they appear to be loyal to the WTS.

  All rather depressing really.

  HS
• 

  scholar

  hilary_step

  I firmly believe in the Gentile Times Doctrine as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses and far from being full of holes such a teaching rests upon solid exegesis, traditional Bible Student theology, accurate Bible chronology and historiography. So there!

  WT chronology produced by 'celebrated WT scholars is far from doomed. Rather, it is the demonic and absurd secular chronologies that support 586/587 BCE that are doomed because these chronologies misrepresent God's Word and are full of deceit. What is more important unlike wiley poztates is that loyalty and integrity are important qualiies of the True Religion which completely escapes those who love the lie rather than the truth.

  scholar JW
• 

  Dansk

  Alleymom's (Marjorie's) K.I.S.S. approach:

  Ok, here's my "Keep It Simple, Sweetie" approach to 586/587 BCE. All you have to do is be able to count backwards.
  
  The names and regnal lengths of the Neo-Babylonian kings are known. If you start at 539 BCE for the fall of Babylon, a date which is accepted by the WTS and secular historians, and list the years of the kings in reverse order, it is very easy to see that Jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 BCE.

  There are only 5 Babylonian kings to deal with. It isn't hard. You don't need to bother with VAT 4956, Josephus, Ptolemy, Anstey, Bullinger, etc. etc. Just go by the actual kings, whose names and regnal lengths are known from tens of thousands of cuneiform tablets from many different towns and villages all over southern Mesopotamia. It is so simple a child could do it.

  Note: Perhaps you are thinking, "But does the WTS agree with the list of the kings and the lengths of their reigns?" The surprising answer is YES! I recently bought a Watchtower Library 2001 CD and found quotations from WTS articles and books which show that the WTS itself has agreed with secular historians regarding the names and lengths of reign of the 5 kings listed below.

  (There are also articles which try to dance around this, but the fact remains that in their own literature at various times they have agreed with the length of each king's reign. I will provide the quotations in my next post.)

  Just start with Nabonidus, the last Babylonian king, and work backward.

  Babylon falls to Cyrus the Persia -- 539 BCE
  Nabonidus -- 17 years
  Labashi-Marduk -- 3 months (WT says less than 9 months)
  Neriglissar -- 4 years
  Evil-Merodach -- 2 years
  Nebuchadnezzar -- 43 years

  Nabonidus -- 17 years
  Year 17 = 539 BCE
  16 = 540
  15 = 541
  14 = 542
  13 = 543
  12 = 544
  11 = 545
  10 = 546
  9 = 547
  8 = 548
  7 = 549
  6 = 550
  5 = 551
  4 = 552
  3 = 553
  2 = 554
  1 = 555
  0 = accession year = 556
  Labashi-Marduk -- less than a year
  3 months in 556
  Neriglissar -- 4 years
  4 = 556
  3 = 557
  2 = 558
  1 = 559
  0 = accession year = 560
  Evil-Merodach -- 2 years
  2 = 560
  1 = 561
  0 = accession year = 562
  Nebuchadnezzar -- 43 years
  43 = 562 BCE
  42 = 563
  41 = 564
  40 = 565
  39 = 566
  38 = 567
  37 = 568
  36 = 569
  35 = 570
  34 = 571
  33 = 572
  32 = 573
  31 = 574
  30 = 575
  29 = 576
  28 = 577
  27 = 578
  26 = 579
  25 = 580
  24 = 581
  23 = 582
  22 = 583
  21 = 584
  20 = 585
  19 = 586 BCE
  18 = 587 BCE

  So Jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 BCE by Nebuchadnezzar. See the next post for quotations from WT literature which support the regnal lengths for each king listed above.
  Marjorie