by MichaelM 101 Replies latest jw friends
MichaelM,
They believe that labeling the OT as "old" makes it seem outdated and less relevant to Christianity. Of course, in terms of Christianity the OT is outdated and less relevant, but has quite a lot of useful information nonetheless.
Since much of their societal models are built upon OT "antetypes" they can't very well draw attention to the fact that they are still working largely from a system that was done away with in the New Testament.
run forest run.....
Michael, I am glad you appreciated the advice you have been given and especially that you "got something" from my posts. This kind of makes up for all the poor souls that I knocked myself out with trying to convince tem to COME INTO the WTS before I knew any better.
Just suffice it to say that we all want you to slooooow doooown. You don't have to make any decisions today or tomorrow. The Witnesses want you to think that the world is going to end in the next three days if not sooner. My husband and I were "in" for over thirty years and stayed stressed all the time thinking that we were at the end of the end of the end of this system. Of course, then we found out that the first president of the WTS thought that the end would be here in the late 1800s at first, then changed the date many times.
I liked what Quandary had to say here....it puts me in mind of the urgency we felt at the direction of the WTS back in the early 70's....and why I worked so hard to "get baptized" before 1975 when the BIG A was said to be happening. You could not imagine the hype and the way Field Service vwas conducted....and EVERYTHING we did and said was focused ON this date!
Of course, it was ALL total speculation from the men who print "the truth" of the bible.....and many were more than disappointed in their tactics back then..and left. The WTS then wrote articles and talks to kick the JWs when they were already down....that talked about "only serving Jehovah for a "date" in mind and not because their hearts were devoted to Him"....so that they would mentally drop the "date" business that was "not pleasing to Jehovah". The men of the Watchtower are VERY clever.
You see that these despicable men LIKE to play head games (they are MASTERS at this) and use language loaded with "weasel-words" to slink all around the "truth" and not be held accountable for anything. They are truly disgusting and do NOT display the mind OR the personality of Christ in any way.
DO take your time, every step of the way. Your LIFE depends on this....because if and when you get baptized ....you ARE THEIRS ( and NOT Christ's) and MUST follow EVERYTHING they tell you from that day.
hugs,
Annie
So I caved a little... I am going to move to the cabin by Russ. He gave me a deal on the rent and it'll be way more comfy to live. I also am finding out that there is DSL in that region because i have other friends in that area that have it. Russ said he couldn't get DSL but he hasn't checked in over 5 years rofl.
We had a long discussion today about beliefs , the watchtower and the Witnesses etc. We came to a conclusion, he said that he didn't mean he would think that less of me.. He was just dissapointed because he really wants me as a brother and whatnot. I made it clear to him that I am my own man and I'll believe in what I think is right. I told him just because i'm moving there doesn't mean i'm going to go his way. He agreed and he said he just really wants some company that far out from the main town and he genuinely likes me. So I said "So you don't mind if I become a Baptist, switch to Lutheran, and then go with the Methodists?" and he said "That's all up to you and i'll stop witnessing to you, but if you ever want my guidance spiritually I'll help you". He has cooled off a lot and I trust him. I think i'll be ok in the cabin I won't be pursuaded by his teachings especially with the knowledge that i've learned here.
>=D I really want to prove all his things wrong though, he almost seems haughty when he makes his logical points. I'll take things slow though. But 400 bucks a month for this cabin, and he told me he'd pay for utilities.. thats hard to beat where I live..
So I caved a little... I am going to move to the cabin by Russ. He gave me a deal on the rent and it'll be way more comfy to live. I also am finding out that there is DSL in that region because i have other friends in that area that have it. Russ said he couldn't get DSL but he hasn't checked in over 5 years rofl.
We had a long discussion today about beliefs , the watchtower and the Witnesses etc. We came to a conclusion, he said that he didn't mean he would think that less of me.. He was just dissapointed because he really wants me as a brother and whatnot. I made it clear to him that I am my own man and I'll believe in what I think is right. I told him just because i'm moving there doesn't mean i'm going to go his way. He agreed and he said he just really wants some company that far out from the main town and he genuinely likes me. So I said "So you don't mind if I become a Baptist, switch to Lutheran, and then go with the Methodists?" and he said "That's all up to you and i'll stop witnessing to you, but if you ever want my guidance spiritually I'll help you". He has cooled off a lot and I trust him. I think i'll be ok in the cabin I won't be pursuaded by his teachings especially with the knowledge that i've learned here.
>=D I really want to prove all his things wrong though, he almost seems haughty when he makes his logical points. I'll take things slow though. But 400 bucks a month for this cabin, and he told me he'd pay for utilities.. thats hard to beat where I live..
I too have reached a point with a couple of Witnesses where they say that they want to "agree to disagree" and leave it at that.
If that is the "stasis" that you want then that is fine. If he starts "witnessing" to you again, then let him know that "he has broken his word - what kind of a witness is that?"
BUT it would be good to shatter the illusion that keeps them prisoner wouldn't it ?
Don't let their "logic" and "hopping through the scriptures" get to you. As many here have said, the truth is simple - Jesus.
He was just dissapointed because he really wants me as a brother and whatnot.
Okey-dokey. Time for a little tough love to be applied here.
"MOVING IN" with him.
MAJOR RED FLAG.
CHRISTIANITY IS A BROTHERHOOD. One does not have to be a particular "part" of Christianity to consider each one "a brother". (ESPECIALLY a sect as unchristian, rigid and unbending as the Watchtower is!) I am just as bonded to another Christian that goes to one church as I am with one who goes to another, even those who do not attend any church, but let their love for JESUS CHRIST be known in their speech and actions.
This is cult talk and should be regarded as such. Personally speaking, I am SO disappointed with the Watchtower's arrogant and elitist viewpoint on this: that a persom MUST be a JW to be considered a Christian "brother". Who are THEY to decided who belongs to Christ as a brotherhood, and who does not?
So I said "So you don't mind if I become a Baptist, switch to Lutheran, and then go with the Methodists?" and he said "That's all up to you and i'll stop witnessing to you
He will stop witnessing to you when he stops breathing. Period.
There is NO true JW on the earth that will agree "NOT to witness" to one they are desperately trying to get to come into the Watchtower. And don't you see that the MOMENT you "disappoint him" again...in any way (after you are all moved and settled in).....that he will pull this stuff on you every time? I'm sorry....I like to find the best in others and focus on THIS---unless it is a JW trying to lure a potential convert into the WTS trap. Then all bets are off.
Michael...have you given any thought to how you will be able to spend YOUR holidays?
Your birthday?
Holiday parties or BBQ's you might like to throw for YOUR nonJW friends?
The music you might like to listen to that JWs would not approve of?
TV shows you like that HE would not reccommend? (Good heavens, the list is endless!)
You have fallen for the "help-with-strong-but-invisible-strings" and have taken the bait. JWs NEVER offer ANYTHING to a nonJW simply out of the gooodness of their hearts. I can assure you that he will be witnessing to you in every conceivable way, hints on how "great" it is to BE a JW, vivd comparisons about "the world vs the WTS", and a continual and constant opportunity to bend your ear as a captive audience. He may not be outwardly "talking scripture" but he WILL be "pushing the Watchtower". ( It may take a little while, but it WILL happen. It is a given. If I am wrong....I will be the first to apologize.)
I will be willing to say that if and when you visit ANY other church.....that he will be right there waiting for you where you live, picking "what you heard" apart and making these comparisons, with the Watchtower ALWAYS coming up smelling like a rose as against evil old Christendom. Being in the situation you have now agreed to place yourself IN.....you will end up either being extremely unhappy with this decision TO move in....or knuckle under to the pressure (subtle or otherwise) to begin another more intensified study of the Watchtower indoctrination program. There IS no Christian freedom in the Watchtower.
Let us know how it all goes for ya.....
hugs,
Annie
I do hope you use your time at the cabin, MichaelM, to put some money away in case things go south. I know more than a few Witnesses who have formed a dependent relationship with a study, in order to keep them in. Think about how dependent you are becoming on his help.
Is there an internet connection out there in the cabin?
Hoping4change: jgnat - Do you have a reference/scan for this? I am curious to see for myself how I am sure they would regard me if I ever indulged them in an 'official' study. Thx!
All I did was pick off the two most recent "hits" for "goatish" off the 2003 WT CD. Basically, if you don't meekly accept their message like a good little sheep, instead rejecting their version of the Kingdom, you are of the other kind.
*** w90 1/15 p. 20 Learning the Sacred Secret of Godly Devotion ***
From his vantage point in the heavens, this glorious King, Judge, and Advocate of godly devotion will bring vengeance, first on the man of lawlessness and other factions of Babylon the Great, and then on all remaining elements and goatish supporters of Satan’s wicked earthly organization. Satan will then be abyssed. (Revelation 20:1-3) But sheeplike "righteous ones" will depart into everlasting life. (Matthew 25:46) May your pursuit of godly devotion place you in that upright group!
*** w86 1/1 p. 18 Building for an Eternal Future ***
It is the time for the King, Jesus Christ, now enthroned in the heavens, to separate meek, sheeplike people from obstinate, goatish people who do not want that Kingdom, and to gather these "sheep" to his congregation of spiritual "brothers" before the "great tribulation" strikes.—Matthew 24:14, 21; 25:31-40.
He was just disappointed because he really wants me as a brother and whatnot.
Ahhh, the true motivation is revealed!
So often what JWs push as 'drawing closer to god' end up meaning 'draw close to our organization'. Their main goal is not to help you grow in your relationship with God but to put you under the authority of the Watchtower.
D I really want to prove all his things wrong though, he almost seems haughty when he makes his logical points.
Yes, they are very persistent that they are so true that they will get a little angry when somebody doesn't agree. When the Watchtowers suggestions and arguments don't work they tend to blame the person who isn't agreeing with them. They reason it must be your fault that you are not responding to this message because they are the 'truth' and can't be wrong.
I would get a signed, legal lease. Seriously. You would not be the first to depend on a jw and end up screwed.
Jws are really good at teading people & figuring out what they are looking for, then adapting themselves in order to manipulate others. You will not win an argument with them, they spend many hours a week being brainwashed & taught how to twist & manipulate. I don't think you need a father figure. I think you need to figure out what you are interested in and like for yourself. I think you can find better "friends" that don't judge you or try to pursuade you to adopt their religion or point of view.
I hope you stick around Mike.
