MAJOR UN/WTS NEWS- UN LETTER & 1992 Press R...

by hawkaw 589 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  belbab

  Mac

  I would like to add to my comment above after sleeping on this subject.

  Proverbs 18:17 reads, The first to plead his case seems just,
  :Until another comes and examines him.

  The Watchtower first pleaded their case with the UN and became associates with them.

  In the second place the posters on this board have exposed their association with the UN and also all the derogatory publications that have portrayed the UN as a disgusting thing that will endure the wrath of God.

  Now the lawyer, Philip Brumley , who certainly must be familiar with pleading cases, claims , it seems, that he is the examiner regarding MacHislopp’s letter and the subject of the UN. involvement.

  I believe the subject of first and second examiners needs to be examined further.

  If anyone has access to WT publications, could they look up quotations in the publications where the above texts are used and post any interesting uses of these text in regard to the above references in Mr. Brumley.s letter.

  belbab
• 

  outnfree

  belbab,

  Here's the application I'm sure Brother Brumley had in mind of Prov. 18:17 from the 12/15/80 WT article Your Spirit -- How Can You Control It?:

  Try to See the Other Person's Point of View. This is not easy to do, especially when his viewpoint may seem diametrically opposed to ours. Yet the very effort we make in trying to see things his way will often serve to offset our own feelings and have a calming effect. At least we will be able to understand to some extent how he could feel or act the way he does. In fact, when we do this we are applying the wise counsel given by the apostle Paul to the Philippians, to consider "that the others are superior to you, keeping an eye, not in personal interest upon just your own matters, but also in personal interest upon those of the others."-Phil. 2:3, 4.
  This helps us to avoid the trap of prejudging without really considering both sides. (Prov. 18:13) At first sight it may seem to us that we are 100 percent right and that our brother is wholly in the wrong. But as we look into things more carefully, we generally find that it is rarely that simple. Proverbs 18:17 wisely observes: "The first man to speak in court always seems right until his opponent begins to question him."-Today's English Version.

  However, here's a gem from the March 15, 1988 Watchtower:

  *** w88 3/15 18-19 Serving as Jehovah's Trusting Fellow Workers ***
  Tests of Loyalty
  12 Loyalty to Jehovah God requires that we also be loyal to his servants on earth, our fellow Christians. The apostle John makes this clear when he reminds us: "He who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot be loving God, whom he has not seen." (1 John 4:20) The imperfections of others may test our loyalty in this regard. For instance, when they have been offended, some have manifested a weakness in their loyalty to Jehovah's organization by staying away from Christian meetings. Another test of our loyalty to our brothers arises when those whom Jehovah is using to take the lead err in judgment. Now and then, such mistakes have been used by some as an excuse to take umbrage and disassociate themselves from Jehovah's visible organization. But is their course of action justified? By no means!
  13 Why are such persons not justified in leaving God's organization? Because his Word assures us: "Abundant peace belongs to those loving [Jehovah's] law, and for them there is no stumbling block." (Psalm 119:165) Moreover, we are commanded to "have intense love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins." (1 Peter 4:8; Proverbs 10:12) Furthermore, suppose a person was to separate himself from Jehovah's people. Where could he go? Is he not faced with the same issue that confronted Jesus' apostles when he asked them if they also wanted to leave him? The apostle Peter rightly replied: "Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life." (John 6:68) There is nowhere else to go but to "Babylon the Great," the world empire of false religion, or into the clutches of Satan's political "wild beast." (Revelation 13:1; 18:1-5) Largely, disloyal ones who have left Jehovah's visible organization have made common cause with those in God-dishonoring "Babylon the Great."

  ----------------
  or false prophets who remain inside Jah's 'visible organization'!!!

  or how about this?

  *** w92 11/15 17-18 Jehovah Is Not to Blame ***
  Never Become Enraged Against Jehovah!
  17 Even if some individual or situation in a congregation displeased or offended a servant of God, the one taking offense would really be distorting his own way if he stopped associating with Jehovah's people. Such a person would not be putting his perceptive powers to proper use. (Hebrews 5:14) So be determined to face all adversities as an integrity keeper. Maintain loyalty to Jehovah God, Jesus Christ, and the Christian congregation. (Hebrews 10:24, 25) The truth that leads to eternal life can be found nowhere else.
  18 Remember, too, that Jehovah never tries anyone with evil things. (James 1:13) God, who is the very epitome of love, does good, especially for those loving him. (1 John 4:8) Though we do not always understand divine dealings, we can be confident that Jehovah God will never fail to do what is best for his servants. As Peter said: "Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time; while you throw all your anxiety upon him, because he cares for you." (1 Peter 5:6, 7) Yes, Jehovah really cares for his people.-Psalm 94:14.
  19 Therefore, do not let anything or anybody stumble you. As the psalmist so well said, "abundant peace belongs to those loving [Jehovah God's] law, and for them there is no stumbling block." (Psalm 119:165) All of us experience trials, and these may cause us to become somewhat depressed and disheartened at times. But never let bitterness develop in your heart, especially against Jehovah. (Proverbs 4:23) With his help and on a Scriptural basis, handle the problems you can solve and endure those that persist.-Matthew 18:15-17; Ephesians 4:26, 27.
  20 Never let your emotions cause you to react foolishly and thus distort your way. Speak and act in a manner that will make God's heart rejoice. (Proverbs 27:11) Call upon Jehovah in fervent prayer, knowing that he really cares for you as one of his servants and will give you the understanding needed to remain on the path of life with his people. (Proverbs 3:5, 6) Above all, do not become enraged against God. When things go wrong, always remember that Jehovah is not to blame.

  ------------

  No, in this case it's clearly the Governing Body, the Writing Department and the Service Department of Jehovah's Witnesses who are to blame for hypocrisy and deceit.

  How many posters to this board DID call on Jehovah in fervent prayer and were led OUT of captivity to their whorish JW Masters? (I, personally, am raising my hand here.)

  It is the ones with eyes to see that are examining the ones who "seem just" but are not.

  It is the Watchtower Society's way that is "distorted" and had wreaked havoc on the lives of thousands!

  outnfree

  Par dessus toutes choses, soyez bons. La bonte est ce qui ressemble le plus a Dieu et ce qui desarme le plus les hommes -- Lacordaire
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello everyone,

  Thanks for your comments about - P. Brumley 's

  answer to my e-mail. To give a better picture, as a reminder

  here is the letter that I e-mailed him to this add.:

  "Philip BRUMLEY" < [email protected]

  10/17/2001

  Dear Brother

  I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses , that in union with millions

  of others , worldwide, is trying to follow closely Jesus'

  footsteps. I would like to related a recent event which, at the

  beginning … puzzled me greatly.

  As a matter of fact, I did found some information that

  now deeply disturb me, as a person but also in a much

  deeper spiritual sense.

  At the beginning it left me numb…, but after, I took the decision to write you this letter,
  although I do know that it is not easy at all.
  As I 'm writing my hands are trembling , I'm really deeply, deeply

  touched , I think that I rarely experienced this emotion, triggered

  by these informations.

  Here , as short as possible they are:
  On the website of The United Nations (www.un.org) the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, was listed as a Non-Governmental Organization (NGO) affiliated with the Department of Public Information (DPI).
  At first glance it seemed, I thought, as though this association of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York with the United Nations , could be reasonable and logical.
  However, I did search for some of the criteria, to be met by an organization in order to achieve NGO status, and I did found that some of these are the following:
  (°)"… encourage political participation at the community level "
  (°)"The Department of Public Information and NGOs cooperate regularly. NGOs associated with DPI disseminate information about the UN to their membership, thereby building knowledge of and support for the Organization at the grassroots level."
  Sincerely I must say that these are the statements that are so troubling to me.
  Then I called the United Nations to verify that all the informations were correct, including the fact that the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York, was indeed an NGO.
  Therefore I would greatly appreciate your clarification on these basic and specific points:

  a) What was the purpose of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society's

  association with the United Nations as an NGO?

  b) Why were , the thousands and thousands of Jehovah’s Witnesses congregations, all over the world, never informed of this relationship or association status with the United Nations?

  c) In October 2001, why was that you, as Watchtower Bible & Tract

  Society of New York, seek termination of this almost 10 years old relationship with the United Nations?

  (as can be seen from a fax dated 10/11/01 from Paul Hoeffel, Chief – NGO/DPI Section, United Nations - New York -)

  d) Why did the DPI make a decision, to disassociate the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York as of 9 October 2001?

  e) Will the thousands and thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses congregations, all over the world, be informed of the termination or

  disassociation of this relationship or association status with the United
  Nations?

  I thank you in advance for helping me to reconcile this apparent contradiction of beliefs, taught and published by you and generally held by all the Jehovah's Witnesses vs. your relationship or association status - as Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York, with the
  United Nations.
  After all, it is still clear in my mind, when I personally , to my family and in private , in the congregation and even publicly , I did refer to the "…United Nations as ' a scarlet-colored wild beast ' that is the image of Satan's bloodstained political system…"

  I know your answers will be helpful in overturning the recent charges of hypocrisy that have
  arisen in the press recently over this matter , even

  more so, after an article published in the " The Guardian" 10/15/01 -London - UK,

  and while waiting , please accept my Christian greetings,

  Sincerely, your brother and fellow servant in Christ Jesus,

  James Charles MacHislopp

  ------------------------------end of letter ---------------------------------

  P.S. I've sent the same letter to other

  26 differents WTBS offices and or PR/ Legal cons. etc.

  Brother Philip Brumley is the only one that - up to today -

  has answered!

  I’ll give ample thought to all your comments

  while preparing an answer and then I’ll post it.

  " One who has an accurate knowledge
  of God's Word will have no problem
  in refuting false religious ideas".
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello everyone,

  you should not miss this one:

  " Hello Catholic Guy,

  Thanks for sharing with us your friend's answers.

  Quite interesting. Would you mind posting it on the main thread
  i.e. " Major UN/WTBS News…" to give many more the
  opportunity to read comments …!

  Allaow me to dwell on Thirdson E X C E L L E N T arguments:

  1) The WTS chose to associate with the UN and either lied to the UN when it agreed to support the UN charter or lied since in making excuses.

  2) As for Paul, he didn't apply for Roman citizenship he inherited it. Most people are citizens by birth. JW immigrants have had problems becoming US citizens because of renouncing previous citizenship and swearing allegiance to USA.

  Very logical, factual and TRUTHFUL points!!!

  3) Being an associate of the UN is not necessary for the functioning of the WTS nor required for furthering the interests of God's kingdom if God is in charge.

  4)The WTS associated for reasons of political expediancy (my view) and the related pressing need tax breaks and money.

  Now try to dismiss, refute or discuss about this one!!!

  5) As for the UN charter if there is nothing wrong with it, why does the WTS denounce the UN?
  Surely, they should be supporting the UN as the interim and only means for peace and concord while awaiting God's Kingdom.

  Now try to dismiss, refute or discuss about these points.

  And, one must not forget that the "request" for affiliation, the affiliation status etc. etc.
  has being HIDDEN to the vast majority of the " worldwide brotherhood of JW's "
  for 10 long years!!! WHY if it WAS NOT MORALLY WRONG???

  The last question that springs in my mind:

  - WHY such an HASTY withdrawal, retreat, within 48 hours from the matter beeing
  made PUBLIC by a WORDLY source??? WHY, WHY, WHY???

  Finally a great point also from CornerStone :

  "… THEY KNOW they would have ANYBODY disfellowshipped who publicly acknowledged their support of the United Nations and its charter!

  I believe the borg masters have such hate, such contempt for the R&F. This is why they keep actions like their UN involvement a secret because they don't TRUST their flock to follow them."

  It is a very sad fact, that we'll never receive sincere and truthful answers from the WTBS
  on such questions.

  Greetings , J.C.MacHislopp

  P.S. This will be posted on the main thread.
  I do believe that such an exchange of well
  thought and worded comments, should be read
  by a great number of visitors.

  " One who has an accurate knowledge
  of God's Word will have no problem
  in refuting false religious ideas".
• 

  IslandWoman

  MacHislopp,

  ***At the beginning it left me numb…, but after, I took the decision to write you this letter,
  although I do know that it is not easy at all.
  As I 'm writing my hands are trembling , I'm really deeply, deeply

  touched , I think that I rarely experienced this emotion, triggered

  by these informations.***

  IMO, this overly emotional display was a dead giveaway to your "apostate" or "quasi apostate" status. A genuine, active JW would more likely be looking for clarification, your statements showed that you were well versed in the subject and that your mind was already made up.

  Also your use of the same name as your screen name was crazy, haven't we all been informed of the strong possibility that Brooklyn looks in on these sites?

  You have in reality made it more difficult for the letters or e-mails of others to be taken seriously. It must be obvious to them now, that xJWs are attempting to pose as JWs, and to say whatever it takes to sound like one, even to invoke the name of Jesus, in order to get this issue exposed. It's much better to be less deceptive. You have shot yourself in the foot!

  IW
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello Isalan Woman

  thanks for your comments about my
  letter. I do understand your viewpoint and I would like
  to add this:

  *I gave brother P. Brumley my HOME e-mail,
  and why not? IIt's like giving an invitation
  to my own house. A kind gesture.

  *I'll answer his letter, again by e-mail
  after all we are almost in the year 2002
  it is the priviledge of today's technology;

  *I don't believe I've made more difficult to
  give answers to others or to believe those
  who'll write to him as well;

  *The feelings described are those of anyone with
  temperament and in mho, emotional display. True
  not for everyone but not so uncommon... for such
  a subject...after decades of teachings!

  * I cannot say more for obvious reason, as many posters
  even wrote...cautious, carefull ;

  * Finally I'm aware as you are and most of us here,
  that the WTBS ,...read this FORUM even regularly
  so what??? TRUTH has nothing to FEAR ...!

  Anyway, thanks again for your time and your
  kindness in writing to me personally. I do
  really appreciate it.

  Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

  " One who has an accurate knowledge
  of God's Word will have no problem
  in refuting false religious ideas".
• 

  IslandWoman

  MacHislopp,

  You're Welcome, also thanks for taking the criticism on the chin.

  That said alot about you!

  IW
• 

  CatholicGuy

  I'm reposting this here at the request of MacHislopp:

  I've been able to maintain contact with a JW friend--even though I've been out of the Organization for over 20 years. I brought up the UN subject with him and got this interesting reply. My friend is an elder now and former Bethelite:

  ++++++++++

  Does it bother me that there could be some sort of affiliation with the UN? Not in the least. We have to have some sort of relationship with the governments that we live under even though we know that Jehovah will destroy them. I have friends who are not JW's and know that God will deal with all in perfect mercy and justice. We have to live peacefully within our communities that include other religions; we have to show tolerance to be tolerated by others. And what about Jehovah's judgements in the future? My view: that's His job, not mine. The problems with religions come when we try to rush those judgements somewhat (ex: our Islamic pals of late). I was sorry to here the brothers at Brooklyn reacted to questioning by withdrawing. The better responce would have been: MYOB. Oh well.

  ++++++++

  A better response than the "library card" defense. I don't agree with it but it's a more honorable defense.

  Just got one more response from the same elder:

  ++++++++

  The WTBS relationship with the UN is no more "hypocritical" than the apostle Paul's citizenship with the Roman empire. When he was beaten he "appealed to Caesar". The same fellow that was killing his brothers. Was he being a hypocrite? Apparently not. He was, however, using the system to further the preaching of the good news. Is there anything wrong with the UN charter? No, it seems to further lofty ideals. Is there anything wrong with the Constitution of the U.S.? No, it's the basis for the freedoms we enjoy. Is it hypocritical to be a citizen of a country, enjoy it's benefits and still remain neutral as to political and military affairs? You be the judge, but the Bible says no. Is it hypocritical to be listed as an NGO with an organization that the Bible condemns to further the preaching of the good news around the world? If it were then JW's would have to operate "underground" in every country of the world, because all man-made governments will be destroyed by God eventually. We couldn't "register" or incorporate in any of them. There's no hypocrisy with the WTBS on this issue.

  Here's the hypocrisy: this writer and those who are stirring this up are focusing on such a minor point that they ignore all the good being done by JW's and the good people who are with us. We're listed as an NGO with the UN. SO WHAT? Like I said in my last note: his intentions are suspect. Actually they're more than suspect: they're malicious, and therefore his information becomes questionable and not worthy of consideration. The old adage is true: don't believe everything you read.

  +++++++++++

  He's referring to the article by Stephen Bates. My friend also hinted that our relationship was at risk by my bringing up the subject. Guess I touched a nerve?

  Any comments?

  CatholicGuy

  not my webpage but a favorite:
  http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZHOME.HTM
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello everyone,

  thanks again for all your comments.

  To Belbab : " ...You have posted his reply, he knows now where you are and maybe who you are. "

  I'm not so sure about this, I'm not an expert on this fiel

  but surely it's not so easy as you comment makes it appear.

  To IslandWoman : Comments, even positive and constructive

  criticism should always be welcome...it's the base of any

  healthy and two-ways communication. Thanks again.

  To Catholic Guy: Thanks for posting again your

  story. I'm certain that many will like to read it.

  At the moment I'm preparing the result of a research

  concerning NGO's and other religious affilitation,

  and my answer to brother Brumley.

  Greetings, J.C. MacHislopp

  " One who has an accurate knowledge
  of God's Word will have no problem
  in refuting false religious ideas".
• 

  IslandWoman

  ***I was sorry to here the brothers at Brooklyn reacted to questioning by withdrawing. The better responce would have been: MYOB. Oh well***

  In a free society when the police approach to question an individual, it is only the criminal or the one hiding a crime that turns tail and runs!

  The fact that Brooklyn did just that shows that THEY KNOW a wrong was committed, one they could not easily defend.