Beautiful!!! This thread is back in business!!
Beautiful!!! This thread is back in business!!
Even though I have been out seven months, and mentally gone for about one year, I am still actually NAUSEATED at the information you keep pulling up. You are truly "Researcher par excellence"!
When I clicked on the link you posted above to the Protection of Religious Minorities site and read for myself the credentials of the presenters and their various topics, I could scarcely believe the depth to which the Watchtower had actually sunk in its shameless fornication with the kings of the earth.
People, the Watchtower LOUDLY and CLEARLY has been involved in 'this system of things'' political processes, just like all the other false religions they've been railing against to their unsuspecting members.
Truly, I am even more devastated than I thought I could be at this point in my departure... Sickened by my own stupidity and lemminglike willingness to follow this corrupt organization to my own death [and the death of my poor babies if need be!!!!] as I was a 'true believer' in what is now seen to truly be the Pharisaical "whitewashed graves, which outwardly indeed appear beautiful but inside are full of dead men's bones and of every sort of uncleaness." (Matthew 23:27)
What a vile, despicable thing this sect has become! A caricature of all it itself reviled!
Par dessus toutes choses, soyez bons. La bonte est ce qui ressemble le plus a Dieu et ce qui desarme le plus les hommes -- Lacordaire
Sickened by my own stupidity
I have to disagree for you are doing a blame the victim on YOURSELF- how sad
you were not stupid- in fact i have met very few stupid persons in the org- alot mislead , but not many stupid-
you merely had someone gain your trust and they lied to you- plain and simple
we see that take place in relationships all the time- faithful wife stays home to raise the kids- hubby works overtime to make extra money- starts getting involved with another woman continues to reassure his wife of his love- esp if he is not being bad to her and she had BABIES by this man - they are a family- she trust him, etc
in any trusting relationship- it is very easy to dupe the other person
do you think that Bush would be willing to turn his back on Bin Ladin in a dark room-
but would not most husbands and wives trust turning thier back on each other in a dark room without fear of having a Knife stuck in their back
wt was like a mother to us and who doesn't trust their mother
so we were merely taken advangtage of - never VIEW yourself as stupid- in fact some of us were born into this faith THIS IS ALL WE KNEW
others were having issues in thier life and little old sister kind heart stopped by and took an interest in us and our problems offered to help us out LITTLE DID we know and neither did she THAT the info that she ould give us would have such a devasting effect on our mental health and well being
so you are not stupid- we were HOODWINKED AND BAMBOOZLED
I can't say this enough.
Read Mad Apostate's findings. Like it just goes to show how low they can go and pull the wool over everyone's eyes.
Here is an excerpt and link to a 1998 "public briefing" conducted by CSCE, in which "Jehovah's Witnesses" European activities are made to be the primary focus.
This 1998 "public briefing" was conducted by a Congressional "staffer". Note that the WTS also participated in CSCE "hearings" conducted by Congressmen in 1999 and 2000, with such gaining lots more attention. (Links posted previously in this thread.)
Willy Fautré, Director of Human Rights Without Frontiers, and James McCabe from WTS Legal are the 2 guest speakers.
James Pellechia and Jim Andrik of the WTS are audience members who ask leading questions in the discussion session.
The opening statement below also gives good background info on CSCE.
Don't let the "good intent" of the WTS's participation blurr the fact that this is a "political proceeding". The WTS is attempting (and they succeed) to get one government to exert political pressure on other governments in ways which will benefit the WTS.
Can you picture Jesus, Paul, or any other member of the first century christian congregation appearing before a nonRoman-controlled governmental body to request their intercission with the Roman government? Isn't this the very definition of "spiritual fornication with the Beast"- appealing to human governments instead of the supposedly already installed heavenly Messianic Government?
Again, where is the Greek Scriptures' precedent for Christians to initiate participation with human governmental or ngo political activist organizations? When did any of first century Cristian ever appear before a governmental body except when they were under arrest? And when did they ever make use of any part of the political process?
(Note: "Paul's Appealing to Caesar" was a "judicial" procedure.)
DETERIORATION OF RELIGIOUS LIBERTY IN EUROPE
WEDNESDAY, JULY 22, 1998
Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe
The briefing convened in Room HC-5, U.S. Capitol, Washington, D.C., at 1:10 p.m., Wayne Merry, Helsinki Commission Staff Member, presiding.
Mr. Merry. Good afternoon, and welcome to this public briefing by the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe. My name is Wayne Merry, Senior Advisor to the Commission.
I've started a little late on the view that some people might have as much difficulty finding this room as I did, but I would like to proceed now.
For people who are not familiar with the Commission and its work, let me briefly describe the procedure we will use today.
The Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe, also known as the Helsinki Commission, is a small, but independent, U.S. government agency created by law for the purpose of monitoring implementation of the commitments of the Helsinki Final Act and of other documents of the Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe, the OSCE.
The focus of our activities is very heavily on human rights questions. We have been in existence for over 20 years, and I think have a laudable track record over that period.
The work of the Commission is all public; we do no classified work. A good deal of what we do is conducted in public briefings and public hearings of this type. This session is being transcribed and will be published and available both in hard copy and on the Commission's web site, however, not too soon, it takes a while for the transcriptions to come back from the printers.
There is information on the Commission available on the table outside, and if any of you wish to be on our addressee list or find out more about us members of the Commission staff here will be happy to help you.
Our procedure today will be to hear statements from our two visiting guest experts, and then we will have an open discussion session, in which there can be comments and questions from members of the audience on the very important theme that we are dealing with today.
Let me say that the question of problems of religious liberty is one which is occupying an increasing priority and attention from the Helsinki Commission. This is by no means a new theme in our work. During the Cold War, however, most of the attention that we gave on questions of religious liberty were focused in the eastern countries, countries with at least formerly communist and atheist ideologies, and the problem was one of the situation of religious believers in state political systems which were either overtly hostile or discriminatory toward those believers and towards organized religion.
Today, in the aftermath of the Cold War, and regrettably the geographic scope of our interest has widened, as we are concerned with what we see as a developing pattern of discrimination against religious minorities and other belief groups in a number of countries in the OSCE region.
I will note a number of specific cases on which the Commission has been very active. Most of you are aware of the new law in the Russian Federation on religious activities. This is one which members of the Commission and Commission staff have had an active dialogue with Russian Government officials and legislators, and while there have been some positive developments on that legislation in recent months it is certainly one which we follow with concern and which we will be continuing to monitor very closely.
Recently, Uzbekistan has promulgated a new rule on religious activities which we find very disturbing, both because of the actual content of the statute and because in some of the public statements made by senior government officials at the time that it was introduced, and this is a case which I think we are going to be following with great attention.
Many of the other former communist countries have similar problems which are the focus of a good deal of our efforts. However, unlike during the period of the Cold War, we now must devote a fair amount of our attention to countries further west. It is not new for the Commission to express concern about problems with religious minorities in some of the western countries. For example, we have been concerned about problems with religious minorities in Greece for many years.
More recently, however, we have had to spend time and attention on countries where traditionally this had not been much of a subject of concern for us. There is, however, for example, a new law in Austria, which members of the Helsinki Commission spoke directly with members of the Austrian Parliament during a trip in January, which is a subject of concern.
More recently, the Inquiry Commission of the German Federal Bundestag issued its final report, which we have been examining, and which certainly has some very disturbing elements.
Also, there have been practices in France and in Belgium, which we shall hear more about today, which are disturbing to us.
Let me say that the Helsinki Commission proceeds always on the basis of those principles contained in the Helsinki Final Act and in other OSCE documents, so this is not the case of a United States organization trying to apply American standards to European countries. We are very well aware of the fact that most European countries proceed from a tradition of a state sanctioned or state sponsored church, but the principles contained in the Helsinki documents are internationally accepted principles by all of the states party to the Helsinki Final Act, and they involve, with great priority, fundamental freedoms of religious belief and other belief and of practice. And, it is these principles which we seek to monitor and where we hope to improve compliance.
Let me note that today's briefing is only one in a series of public sessions sponsored by the Helsinki Commission on this important subject. The Helsinki Commission will be in collaboration with the House International Relations Committee sponsoring a joint public hearing next week, on Thursday, July 30th at 10:00 in the morning, in Room 2172 in the Rayburn House Office Building, on continuing religious intolerance in Europe, and you are all certainly invited to attend that session.
Let me also note that the priority and interest which the Helsinki Commission devotes to this important question is reflected in the recent creation in the Helsinki Commission's permanent staff of a position, counsel for religious liberties, occupied by Karen Lord who is with us today. If any of you have any specific questions concerning the Commission's work in this area, I suggest you may wish to be in touch with her.
Today we are honored to have two expert witnesses, who will give us their views on this subject. These are Mr. Willy Fautré, Director of the Human Rights Without Frontiers organization in Belgium, and Mr. James McCabe, who is the Assistant General Counsel of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, and I will ask each of them to speak in turn.
Mr. Fautré, who was born in Belgium in 1944, is both the founder and the chairman of Human Rights Without Frontiers, which is a secular organization promoting rule of law, democracy and human rights. The organization was created in 1989, fortuitously, the year which the Berlin Wall came down, and it gives priority to the field of religious liberty, and it has a press service in both English and French.
This link will take you to the rest of this very lengthy report:
The WTS had 2 speakers scheduled to appear at CESNUR's 1998 International Conference in Italy, but the WTS withdrew them at the last minute.
There are websites which "crow" that the WTS did so, due to xjws making such public.
However, if such was the case, why did the WTS participate in 1999?
1999 International Conference Agenda
Philip Brumley, WTS
Willy Fautre, HRWF
Jeremy Gunn, State Dept.
Karen Lord, CSCE
Thanks, I feel better now. But I was literally sick to my stomach this morning.
You're right, of course, bamboozled and hoodwinked! They have no conscience at all, do they? Or they're just so used to ignoring it!
I can't say enough about your dedication to all this research which is a HUGE help in uncovering the great extent of the Society's intercourse with Satan's system of things.
(And I meant to say thank you above!) Thanks again,
Par dessus toutes choses, soyez bons. La bonte est ce qui ressemble le plus a Dieu et ce qui desarme le plus les hommes -- Lacordaire
Hawk, Mac: how about this. We could start a counter thread where everyone posts the letter they sent and to whom...
We seem to be at something of an impasse with the press. Currently, the Guardian seems to have an exclusive. I'd suggest we use that fact to get further publicity for the UN-WTS connection. One way that editors decide if a story is of sufficient interest to warrant follow ups is by the number of letters to the editor that the stories generate. So I suggest that as many of us as possible write to the editor of Guardian Weekly with a copy (cc'd) to the Guardian's editor too.
Also, send copies to the New York Times, Washington Post, As it Happens (Canadian Broadcast) etc. Nothing irks an editor more than to see a rival getting an exclusive. Also, if the Guardian editors see a huge number of letters it will be good for Stephen Bates too, who is doing a sterling job of getting this story out. If the big US papers publish something then the locals will likely follow.
The only way this will work is if we all write letters over the next few days so that the editors see a huge spike in interest. If possible, include something that would suggest a follow up article would be desirable, e.g., demand a response from the WTS. The idea is not so much to get the letter published, although some might be if enough are received, as to deluge the editors and thereby demonstrate global interest.
Be sure to use a provocative subject header in the e-mail subject line: I'm using: Jehovah's Witnesses and the UN: A study in Hypocrisy.
Here are the addresses and instructions (you can ask to be kept anonymous but they may not publish it).
The Guardian Weekly: Note the second address's instructions carefully; http://www.guardian.co.uk/GWeekly/Email_Editor/0,3961,210620,00.html Letters to the editor, Notes & Queries and other general editorial correspondence with the Guardian Weekly should be sent to our main e-mail address at
But if you are among the many readers around the globe who would like to submit an article for possible publication as a "Letter from..." please send it to the new e-mail address of
The Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/0,6957,180522,00.html
Want to send a letter? You can email letters to the Guardian ar the following address:
[email protected], fax them to 0207 837 4530, or post them to:
19 Farringdon Road,
London EC1R 3ER
We do not publish letters where only an email address is supplied; please include a full postal address and a reference to the relevant article. If you do not want your email address published, please say so.
Here's a preliminary draft of my letter. Appreciate yr thoughts:
To the Editor;
I was intrigued by Stephen Bates' excellent article in The Guardian Weekly, following up on previous articles in the Guardian, in which he exposes the hypocritical affiliation between the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York (Jehovah's Witnesses) and the United Nations. As pointed out by Mr. Bates, the Witnesses have denounced the UN, and the League of Nations before it, in apocalyptic terms for over 80 years. Judging by the activity on Witness discussion boards that these article have generated, tens of thousands of Witnesses across the world are asking "Why?" Not just why did the WTS affiliate as an NGO but why did they disaffiliate only two days after the first story in the Guardian? Almost two weeks later the Watchtower remains silent on this issue. Is it possibly because they can find no answer, except, perhaps "Guilty as charged." This silence in the face of worldwide spiritual unrest among the faithful does not bode well for the organization.
As an large international religion the WTS could accomplish much good for its followers, and others, as a UN affiliate. It is a great pity that the Society has decided to sacrifice this opporunity in favor of a mouldy, somewhat whacky, 1930s interpretation of rather obscure imagery in the Bible book of Revelation.
However, all may not be lost. The shock to the WTS that this latest revelation has induced also provides an opporunity for much needed reform; The Society must admit its duplicity, and, in a true spirit of Christian repentance commit to serious and open reform starting with its polices on blood, the handling of child abusers within its ranks and its severe disfellowshipping policy. Aftre that an overhaul of its inconsistent doctrinal basis should be instituted.
cc: The Editor, The Guardian
The OSCE Implementation Meeting on Human Dimension Issues took place on 17-27 October 2000 in Warsaw. The Meeting was organized by the Office for
Democratic Institutions and Human Rights.
The Meeting was the fifth of its kind. It reviewed implementation of the full range of OSCE human dimension commitments in all 55 OSCE participating States.
SESSION 8 (open)
1. Date: Monday, 23 October 2000
Opened: 12.15 p. m. Suspended: 1.10 p. m. Resumed: 3.10 p. m. Closed:
6.05 p. m.
2. Chairman: Mr. T. M. Buchsbaum (Moderator)
3. Subjects discussed -Statements -Decisions:
REVIEW OF THE IMPLEMENTATION OF HUMAN DIMENSION COMMITMENTS BY PARTICIPATING STATES IN THE OSCE AREA; CONSIDERATION OF WAYS AND MEANS OF IMPROVING IMPLEMENTATION, ON THE BASIS OF THE BROADEST POSSIBLE INFORMATION, IN PARTICULAR FROM OSCE BODIES AND INSTITUTIONS AS WELL AS A REVIEW OF THE PROCEDURES AND MECHANISMS FOR MONITORING AND ENHANCING COMPLIANCE WITH PARTICULAR COMMITMENTS
Tolerance and non-discrimination:
-Prevention of aggressive
nationalism and chauvinism
European Commission against Racism and Intolerance, Netherlands (also on behalf of France-European Union, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Estonia, Hungary, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Romania, the Slovak Republic, Slovenia, the Czech Republic and Turkey), Greek Helsinki Monitor, International Lesbian and Gay Association (ILGA), Macedonian Human Rights Movement in Greece, Minority Rights Group -Greece, Czech Republic, Minority Rights Group International, Belarus, Russian Federation
Freedom of thought, conscience, and religion or belief
ODIHR Advisory Panel of Experts on Freedom of Religion or Belief, Human Rights Without Frontiers, United States of America, Watch Tower Bible and Tracts Society of Pennsylvania, Association of Christian Churches in Russia, Ukraine, Netherlands (also on behalf of France-European Union, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Estonia, Hungary, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Romania, the Slovak Republic, Slovenia, the Czech Republic and Turkey), Netherlands, Koordinierungsrat der türkischen Vereine in Baden, Church of Scientology-European Human Rights Office, Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, Greek Helsinki Monitor, Minority Rights Group -Greece, Norway, Conference of European Churches, International Raelian Religion, Moscow Patriarchate, Belarus, Russian Federation, France, Georgia, Turkey, Estonia, Bulgaria
How many of the conferences, hearings, etc. (posted above) included both the WTS and Willy Fautre of Human Rights Without Frontiers?
I can't get the HRWF website to open, but if someone else can, I'd suggest seeing if there are any "hints" of financial ties to the WTS, or anything else interesting which ties the 2 orgs. In my searching, I have ran across several sites which have borrowed webpages containing JW info from HRWF.
There is no doubt that the WTS is taking advantage of this supposedy independent NGO to advance its corporate goals.
Take a look at this Letter, which invokes the status of HRWF. I believe most folks here will recognize the names of the Sender and the Recipient.
(I don't have a problem with the "procedure" involved with the sending of the letter. This is a case of where the WTS is appealing to the government with which it has an aggreivance, as opposed to the situations posted above where the WTS appeals for third-party intercession.)