Jehovah's Witnesses turned Christian....Post Here

by R.F. 103 Replies latest jw experiences

  • DocBob
    DocBob

    NotaNess:

    Deliberately Not partaking in the Lord's Supper - Anti-Christ

    Turning your back on Christ during Christmas (even thought they don't think they are, my opinion) - Anti-Christ

    How can you be Christian with this?

    Yes! Along with this, because of their two-class system - their drawing a distinction between the 144,000 and the "other sheep", they have taken all but about 8600 of their members out of the realm of Christianity.

    Born again - The Watchtower teaches that the 144,000 are born again, but the other sheep are not.

    "16 As individuals, those of the "little flock" and the multitudinous crowd of the "other sheep" show comparable joyful zeal for God's service. (Luke 12:32; John 10:16; Titus 2:13, 14) Most of the remaining anointed ones may be far more advanced in age and in Christian experience, but both groups display the Christian personality and the fruitage of the spirit. (Ephesians 4:24; Galatians 5:22, 23) There is a difference, though, as Jesus indicated to Nicodemus even before he spoke of everlasting life. He said: "Unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3-5) So a spiritual rebirth is experienced by those baptized Christians whom God calls to be joint heirs with Jesus in his Kingdom.(1 Corinthians 1:9, 26-30) The "other sheep" do not need any such rebirth, for their goal is life everlasting in the restored earthly Paradise as subjects of the Kingdom. -Matthew 25:34, 46b; Luke 23:42, 43." - The Watchtower, 2/15/1984, page 14

    This is a significant distinction because it is the foundation for those that follow.

    Anointed sons of God - In the theology of the Watchtower, the 144,000 are born again as annointed sons of God, the other sheep are not.

    "12 As in the ancient pattern, God provides his spirit also for these hoping to live forever on earth. True, they are not born again. Each of the 144,000 has the singular experience of being born again as a spiritual son of God and anointed with holy spirit. (John 3:3, 5; Romans 8:16; Ephesians 1:13, 14) Of course, that anointing is a unique manifestation of God's spirit in behalf of the little flock. But God's spirit is also needed to carry out his will. Hence, Jesus said: 'The Father in heaven gives holy spirit to those asking him.' (Luke 11:13) Whether the one asking has the heavenly hope or is of the other sheep, Jehovah's spirit is abundantly available to carry out His will." - The Watchtower, 4/15/1002, page 14

    So, while they teach that both groups have the Holy Spirit, they teach that the 144,000 have an anointing, "a unique manifestation of God's spirit in behalf of the little flock" that the "other sheep" do not.

    Declared righteous - The 144,000 are declared righteous in a different way than the other sheep.
    "5 The great crowd do not serve God in the condition pictured by the inner priestly courtyard. They are not declared righteous for the purpose of being God's adopted, spiritual sons. (Romans 8:1, 15) Nevertheless, by exercising faith in Jesus' ransom, they have a clean standing before Jehovah. They are declared righteous with the purpose of being his friends." - The Watchtower, 7/1/1996, page 20

    "Then all on earth will be put to one last test by the loosing of Satan and his demons from the abyss, to which they had been confined while the uplifting work of Christ's reign was taking place. While, during the thousand-year reign, those who refused to get in line were destroyed, the test at the end of the thousand years will reveal all those who turn selfish at heart, who will then be destroyed together with Satan and his demons in what is termed "the lake of fire" and "the second death." (Rev. 20:1-10, 14) Those maintaining integrity will be declared righteous by Jehovah and be given the right to everlasting life.

    Thus, in summing up, we see that from Pentecost to the present time only those of the "body of Christ" are declared righteous, and that by faith; these will gain actual righteousness in the "first resurrection." And the rest of the obedient ones of mankind will be declared righteous to life everlasting after meeting the test at the end of the thousand-year reign of Christ." - The Watchtower, 9/1/1954, page 523

    Body of Christ - The 144,000 are part of the body of Christ, the other sheep are not.

    "16 Paul wrote that we should let the peace of the Christ control in our hearts because we were 'called to it in one body.' The anointed Christians to whom Paul wrote were called to be part of the body of Christ, as are the remaining ones of the anointed today. Their 'other sheep' companions are united with them as 'one flock' under 'one shepherd,'" - The Watchtower, 9/1/2001, page 18

    Vine, branches - The 144,000 are branches of the "true vine", Jesus Christ. The other sheep are not.

    "At Pentecost, 51 days later, the apostles and others become branches of the vine when holy spirit is poured out on them. Eventually, 144,000 persons become branches of the figurative grapevine. Along with the vine stem, Jesus Christ, these make up a symbolic vine that produces the fruits of God's Kingdom - The Watchtower, 8/15/1990, page 8

    "14 While the 'other sheep' are not branches of the Abrahamic-covenant 'olive tree' or of 'the true vine,' Christ Jesus, they must prove themselves to be Christ's disciples. Like all the anointed Christian 'branches,' they must 'keep bearing much fruit.' This they do by producing Christlike qualities of the new personality, including 'the fruitage of the spirit.' (Galatians 5:22, 23; Matthew 28:19, 20; Colossians 3:5-14) But to be really fruitful they give active expression to such qualities by sharing in the work of preaching 'this good news.' (Matthew 24:14) Just as the anointed 'branches' of the 'true vine' must remain in union with Christ, the 'other sheep' must remain in close union with 'the faithful and discreet slave,' Christ's anointed 'brothers.' Only thus can they hope to 'inherit the Kingdom prepared for them from the founding of the world." - The Watchtower, 8/15/1983, page 23

    So then, while the "other sheep" are expected to bear fruit, they are told they are not branches of the True Vine, Jesus Christ. How do they bear fruit? According to this, it is by their connection, not directly with Jesus, but with the 144,000. That takes it from being the fruitage of the spirit to being the fruitage of their association with the "anointed."

    This next point goes to the very core of their relationship with God. The 144,000 and the "other sheep" have very different relationships with God.

    Abba

    Time and again, the Watchtower quotes and cites Romans 8: 15-17 with regard to their 144,000 relationship with God, highlighting the teaching that it is the 144,000 that are God's children and address Him as "Abba, Father".

    10 All 144,000 anointed Christians have had absolute evidence that they have God's spirit. In this regard, Paul wrote: "You received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: 'Abba, Father!' The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God's children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together." (Romans 8:15-17) Anointed Christians have a filial spirit toward their heavenly Father, a dominant sense of sonship. (Galatians 4:6, 7) They are absolutely certain that they have been begotten by God to spiritual sonship as joint heirs with Christ in the heavenly Kingdom. In this, Jehovah's holy spirit plays a definite role. - The Watchtower, 2/15/1998, page 14

    And ...

    Yes, those with the heavenly calling have the testimony of God's spirit to that effect. Concerning this, Paul wrote at Romans 8:15-17: "You did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: 'Abba, Father!' The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God's children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together." It is by means of God's spirit, or active force, that anointed ones cry out, "Abba, Father!"

    The chief evidence that a person has been anointed to the heavenly calling is a spirit, or dominant sense, of sonship. (Galatians 4:6, 7) Such an individual is absolutely sure that he has been begotten by God to spiritual sonship as one of the 144,000 joint heirs of the heavenly Kingdom. He can testify that his heavenly hope is not his own cultivated desire or his imagination; rather, it is from Jehovah as a result of the action of God's spirit toward him.-1 Peter 1:3, 4.

    Under the influence of God's holy spirit, the spirit, or dominant attitude, of anointed ones acts as an impelling force. It moves them to respond positively to what God's Word says about the heavenly hope. They also respond in a positive way to Jehovah's dealings with them by means of the holy spirit. Thus, they are sure that they are God's spiritual children and heirs.

    When anointed ones read what God's Word says about his spiritual children and the heavenly hope, their spontaneous inclination is to say within themselves, 'This means me!' Yes, they respond joyfully when their Father's Word promises a heavenly reward. They say, 'That means me!' when they read: "Beloved ones, now we are children of God." (1 John 3:2) And when anointed ones read that God has brought people forth "to be certain firstfruits of his creatures," their mental inclination is to respond, 'Yes, he brought me forth for that purpose.' (James 1:18) They know that they have been "baptized into Christ Jesus" and into his death. (Romans 6:3) So they have the firm conviction of being part of Christ's spiritual body and entertain the hope of undergoing a death like his and being resurrected to heavenly life. - The Watchtower, 3/15/91, pp 19, 20

    Finally ...

    8 God's spirit gives positive assurance of adoption as spiritual sons to baptized Christians who have received the heavenly calling. The apostle Paul showed this when he wrote to the "holy ones" in Rome, describing what was at that time the situation of all true Christians. He said: "All who are led by God's spirit, these are God's sons. For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: 'Abba, Father!' The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God's children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together."-Rom. 1:7; 8:14-17. - United in Worship of the True God, p 112

    So, according to the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses, the 144,000 know who and what they are because of a positive action on the part of the Holy Spirit toward them. On the other hand, the "other sheep" know who and what they are due to a lack of that positive action toward them by the Holy Spirit.

    Nowhere does the Bible show us Christians who are not born again, not anointed sons of God, not declared righteous for life, not members of the body of Christ, not branches of the True Vine, not able to cry out "Abba, Father", and who do not have the positive assurance of their relationship with God from the Holy Spirit. The only people in the Bible who lack those things are unbelievers.

  • smellsgood
    smellsgood

    frankie,


    The cults such as the Watch Tower and Mormonism in the Christian vein, cannot once even glanced at be called Christian. They are like a whole different animal. The reason one doesn't call a meer cat a blue whale, well, there are quite obvious and gaping differences. There are characteristics of each wherein you can classify their genus, kingdom, species, etc.

    Now, just to make this simple, what you will find the consesus of all those who have studied Christianity as a practitioner or observer will tell you, there is one supreme defining thread and the whole point of Christianity. Without it, there is no Christianity, its simply that Jesus died for your sins, and IS YOUR MEDIATOR

    The Jehovah's Witnesses teach overtly that Jesus is ONLY the MEDIATOR of the 144k, and overtly, covertly, and in every other way, that you MUST BELONG TO THEIR ORGANIZATION, GO THROUGH ALL THEIR HOOPS TO BE SAVED. That is the defining reason why they truly and ultimately canNOT be considered a "Christian" religion, although, there are many many other reasons. That is the most pivotal though. :)

  • free2beme
    free2beme

    Jehovahs Witnesses are Christians. Not like we should ignore that and think that they are the only whacked out Christian group out there. Plenty of those around. So this would be more like JW turning to another Christian religion.

  • Mrs Smith
    Mrs Smith
    Jehovahs Witnesses are Christians. Not like we should ignore that and think that they are the only whacked out Christian group out there. Plenty of those around. So this would be more like JW turning to another Christian religion.

    I disagree. Just because they call themselves Christian does not make them Christain. Be defenition a Christian is someone who follows Christ. Jehovah's Witnesses follow the GB not Christ. They don't even accept Christ sacrifice. They think that works will get them saved and not the gift of salvation.

  • James Free
    James Free
    Sorry folks, but like it or not, the JWs are just another sect within Christendom. They may have a bizarre spin on it, but they are a brand of christianity nonetheless. All ex-JWs have done when joining another christian denomination is switch to a different "style" of christianity.

    There are some who will be offended by this comment. Especially those who claim to be Christian to the exclusion of people with differing views. As for me, I actually agree with what was said. Although some may promote this definition or that definition of what is a Christian, the fact is the word Christian is as undefinable as what is art, what is poetry? I find those insisting on JW's not being Christian, while equally insisting that they are, are often as arrogant and self-righteous as the JW's who claim to be the only ones with the 'Truth'.

  • bernadette
    bernadette

    Jehovahs witnesses claim to believe in the old and new testament, they claim to follow Jesus Christ and they claim to be christian so in my book they are christian.

    just my 2p worth

    I was a non fundamentalist christian for a while, it gave me the strength and security to leave jws. But don't practice anything now.

  • reneeisorym
    reneeisorym

    I'm a member of a Baptist church but I tend to believe more like a Presbyterian. I think I'm still in that stage where I'm trying to decide just where exactly I want to be. I'm Christian though no matter what chuch I end up going to.

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    I became a Christian before I became a JW. I hooked up with JW's because I THOUGHT they taught the truth from the Bible. When I found that was not true (fifteen years later) I left. My wife and I are members and a nondenominational church.

    As to the "are JW's Christians" debate here's my .02:

    I'll cheerfully call anybody my Christian brother who will worship with me, accepting the following statements.

    I accept that Jesus Christ died on the cross for me personally, my sins are completely and irrevocably forgiven as a result.

    Jesus is God manifest in the flesh.

    The Bible is the word of God, and the final authority in all matters.

    Partaking of communion unites us with Jesus and the body of all believers world wide.

    Faith is personal, not the result of adherance to a particular group or set of beliefs.

    I think most JW's would self-select out, most, if not all of the Christians here would be happy to join me.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    • What do you call worshipers of Zeus?
    • What do you call worshipers of Mithra?
    • What do you call worshipers of Christ?
    • What do you call worshipers of Jehovah?

    The answer to these questions should help delineate the difference between a Christian and a JW...

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    I think everyone would agree that there are certain basics one has to accept to be say, a Democrat. If I said "I'm a Democrat and I fully support all the policies of George W. Bush and I'm campaigning for Mitt Romney" no one would blink at anybody that said "he's not a Democrat." The "are JW's Christian's" argument works the same way.

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