JW Discussion Forum Poll (page 5)

jgnat

Bigwilly, your quote was so intriguing I went and looked it up. Is this it?

Rufus: He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the shit that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it.
Bethany: Having beliefs isn't good?
Rufus: I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120655/quotes

Lady Liberty

Dear Zacor,

First..WELCOME to the forum!!

Second, I vote #3. Jesus stated two commands. That was to love Jehovah your God. And to love your neighbor. Those two things would encompass everything else. If we needed to belong to a certain organization, he would have told us, would he not?? After reading the scriptures for what they really say, instead of being told what they mean, it becomes quite clear what Jesus intended for his followers. For example look at this scripture found in Mark 9: 38-42 (NWT):

38

John said to him: "Teacher, we saw a certain man expelling demons by the use of your name and we tried to prevent him, because he was not accompanying us." 39 But Jesus said: "Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one that will do a powerful work on the basis of my name that will quickly be able to revile me; 40 for he that is not against us is for us. 41 Forwhoever gives YOU a cup of water to drink on the ground that YOU belong to Christ, I truly tell YOU,he will by no means lose his reward.42 But whoever stumbles one of these little ones that believe, it would be finer for him if a millstone such as is turned by an ass were put around his neck and he were actually pitched into the sea.

This scripture certainly gives us ALOT to think about. Especially for those of us who have been taught all our lives that if you weren't a Witness at Armegedon, you wouldn't make it. Here this scripture clearly shows that WHOEVER draws ones to Jesus they would not lose their reward. Here was a man expelling demons, and he was not a disciple. Yet, he was drawing ones to Jesus for salvation. And Jesus said not to stumble that one from what he was doing.

One thing the Witnesses love to say is that Jehovah has ALWAYS had an rganization on earth. NOT TRUE!! Otherwise why was it they teach Jesus identified them in 1919 and drew them out of false religon?? If God had always had an organization why did he need to use Russell?? See..these things just don't add up!

Sincerely,

Lady Liberty

zarco

Drew,

I think there can be middle ground.

If one believes the Bible that Abraham’s seed is the means that all nations of the earth bless themselves. It might trouble some that Abraham had significant flaws. He apparently, (1) lied about his relationship with Sarah (although many would have done the same), lived and associated with his father Terah who worshipped a pagan God and (3) directly questioned Jehovah regarding the destruction of Sodom.

So obviously he at times had what some would call errors in judgment. Did that mean that he was not God’s means for blessing mankind? Of course not! On balance the Bible describes him as God’s friend.

Today the WT is teaching what I feel is the truth about (1) the mortality of the human soul, (2) the monotheism of Jehovah, (3) the resurrection and (4) the ransom and God’s purpose for the earth. Do they also teach things that have proved to be false? Yes!. But no other religion that I know of has the core issues right.

Did God let men such as Eli, Manaseh, Saul, Judas and others serve? The Bible suggests that He did. Does this mean that the nation of Isreal was not God’s channel? Or does it mean that Jesus is not God’s son since he messed up in choosing Judas? I don’t believe that to be the case.

So bottom line, I feel that God has a channel and that channel has proved to be very flawed. Until I can find a better channel I am sticking with this one and will await His instruction.

zarco

bigwilly

Bigwilly, your quote was so intriguing I went and looked it up. Is this it?

Yes! That's the one! The same thought process re-occures throughout the movie. Kind of a good way of looking at it.

sammielee24

If it never had the truth it can't be the truth. If it can't be the truth it can't be God' s organization. When did it teach the truth? sammieswife.

zarco

Lady Liberty,

You point is one that I have thought a lot about and I genrally concur with your conclusion. Although I feel that he does have an organization eventhough it is not the only means of salvation.

Jesus was obviously Jah's channel but he recognized the possiblity that others not worshipping in the "normal" way could be on God's side. And your point indeed gives us a lot to think about.

My personal belief is that the sign of the son of man will be so dramatic that many will choose to align themselves with Jesus. This is a future event. If JWs are the true religion can imagine the surprise when many millions flock to Jesus based on his sign. These would not have had the time to serve in the "approved" way rather would come in at the last minute so to speak.

greendawn

Zarco I think you are over valuing the FDS, let's not forget that many of the things they believe they took from other denominations. And they are a business rather than a religion with Rutherford being totally wayward in his behaviour, certainly not the personality of a saint. Had God wanted a channel there were much better people to choose from rather than ones steeped in occultism. And notice even the word channel comes from spiritism, mediums channel spirit energies.

Do Not Call

Hello Zarco,
I'm a 4.
Love DNC xx

mrsjones5

1 - the WTBTS is Jehovah’s channel and I believe what it teaches me (I had to ask:)
2 - the WTBTS is Jehovah’s channel but it has deviated from the truth and has become like apostate Israel and no longer reflects the teachings of Jesus
3 - Jehovah uses other earthly channels and individuals to communicate His truth
4- There is no spiritual truth

I agree with others who've noticed the huge gap between 3 and 4 in your so-called poll. Be that as it may it's a big NO for 1 and 2. And 3 - I think I'm turned off by the name jehovah but yeah God uses other earthly channels and individuals (not the society).

Josie

P.S. The fds has nothing to do with the wtbts - another twisted lie.

drew sagan

First of all Zarco, thanks for the reply!

You said something very important:

Today the WT is teaching what I feel is the truth about (1) the mortality of the human soul, (2) the monotheism of Jehovah, (3) the resurrection and (4) the ransom and God’s purpose for the earth. Do they also teach things that have proved to be false? Yes!. But no other religion that I know of has the core issues right.

The 'core issues' amount to what I would call the foundation of the JW faith. It is these issues more than any other that give the Witnesses the presentation of 'doctrinal purity' that appears to be lacking in the other Churches. With this in mind I would like to draw your attention to a basic text:

For no one can lay any other foundation than that which has been laid, which is Jesus Christ. -1 Cor 3:11

With that very basic of all scriptures we find a differance between what Paul wrote and what you just did. I don't write this to cause an arguement but the foundation of the Christian faith is the confession that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and you didn't have that listed as a foundational teaching. Instead you had 'the ransom' tied in with paradise as the only Christ oriented point, with 3 other points not related to Christ.

I could get into the details regarding the specific points you listed, but I choose not to. Rather than go into deep theological discussion on the points you raised I will simply give you my personal expierance in this matter.

For a long time I viewed these very topics that you have listed as the 'core issues' of the faith. For a long time after leaving the concept that the JWs where Gods chosen organization I still felt JWs where correct in their position on these matters. But eventually I came to a quite differant view of things, in many cases a complete 180. How did this happen? How could I let go of teachings that I felt where 'the core' of the faith and come to have views much differant and more in line with 'orthodoxy'?

No doubt there are a number of Bible 'proof texts' that keep you attached to these teachings. I encourage you to examine them in their full context. I encourage you to listen to what other Bible commentators and scholars have written on the subject. I finally realized that I was only considering one side of the debate as valid and thus limiting my ability to think and decide for myself. I encourage you to listen to what others have to say about these subjects. Study them in depth and don't look for what you simply want to find, look for what is there.

JW Discussion Forum Poll

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