Post what you think is the most violent/cruel bible passage please

by jambon1 76 Replies latest members adult

  • Xena
    Xena
    Also, since he doesn't commment, there's no way of knowing what his state of mind was like beyond the events in the Garden of Gethsemane and the statements at judgement and on the Cross. Since all we have are suppositions and empathising, I'd rather go with the picture that's painted of a man being tortured to death using a number of ever more excruciating methods.
    You're also extrapolating thoughts from the concubine's head, without a view to the cultural context. She was the concubine of a travelling Levite ( modern day Circuit overseer's wife ) and hence part of Israel and had a one-way ticket into paradise...

    Lets see....Godlike person willing submits themself to torture to die for everyone and be resurected to rule vs inperfect woman unwillingly (to say the least I'm sure) gang raped and brutally murdered with a pretty good chance of an afterlife.

    Both are brutal deaths, I doubt anyone will argue that, but as you stated previously intent can change the scales a bit. Jesus intended to die this way, the woman didn't. As Crumpet stated:

    He had a higher purpose and he knew it wouldnt be long before he was Master of the Universe. The poor concubine (was she childless?) had no hope for the future - her demise as far as she knew was complete and her death meaningless and pointless. Jesus had a comfort he would be remembered forever and worshipped by some. Concubine probably expected to be forgotten forever and had no comfort at the end. A positive thought in the head can diminish physical pain.

    Personally I agree with that. But it is all ultimately surmise.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    I don't grant the premise...

    Just to take it back a step, using a JW perspective and analogy on "perfection" for a moment, would Adam have been able to block out pain? What makes a so-called "perfect human" different from us? There appears to be a cascade of WTS reasonings being employed and built upon to arrive at this eventual conclusion.

    As for his being the Son of God, how would lessening his pain and suffering have brought any meaning whatsoever to the transaction of his eternal suffering for ours? Surely it would have detracted from it, if it were a true object lesson? "Hey Jesus, just nip down to the earth for a few decades, get beat up a little and die, but it's ok coz you won't feel a single thing!"

    But alas, we're delving into the theological strata of the stories rather than the violent/cruel passages for their violence and cruelty per se - not that I'm averse to that

  • Xena
    Xena
    And so do you, digress - I mean - bringing your sordid CO fantasies to the board. Shame on you! hehe!

    This could explain why he wanted me to keep a few of my JW dresses.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe
    This could explain why he wanted me to keep a few of my JW dresses.

    Errmmm, no. They're for me

  • onacruse
    onacruse
    As for his being the Son of God, how would lessening his pain and suffering have brought any meaning whatsoever to the transaction of his eternal suffering for ours? Surely it would have detracted from it, if it were a true object lesson? "Hey Jesus, just nip down to the earth for a few decades, get beat up a little and die, but it's ok coz you won't feel a single thing!"

    That's my point: The Messianic prophecies (interpreted the JW-way or not) do not stipulate that Jesus actually suffer physical pain in the course of his experiences...only that he die a substitutionary sacrificial death (the second Adam, etc.).

    And when Paul speaks of "the things [Jesus] suffered, the Greek word he uses means, basically, only "experienced, went through," without the connotations that the English word "suffer" includes of "had physical pain."

    And what would have been the "value added" to this universe if the Son of God could now say (as opposed to pre-crucifixion), "I now know what pain is"? He created all things, and if he didn't know how the nerve system of the human body was designed to work (how he designed it to work!!) until he experienced it himself, then what kind of designer is he?

  • RAF
    RAF

    I'm glad that when I read the bible by myself I began be the Gospel (NT) to be able to understand the whys (the whole thing - and contextual reasons) about what happened before (on the OT) because otherwise I guess I would still be stucked on the matter. Some things was really making me angry before about the OT and even the NT.

  • RAF
    RAF
    The Messianic prophecies (interpreted the JW-way or not) do not stipulate that Jesus actually suffer physical pain in the course of his experiences

    I think he did, and the reason why he was scared was not only because he knew what they will do to him, but I also still have the hability to react (I mean he is a big Part of God) in just looking a tree he drys i ... But it was like he had to got a lot of self controle here otherwise everything would have been screwed up ... That's why he said to his Fater (the other part of his spirit - like you want not like I want and maybe somehow it might be - take my abbilities away so that I can't react) it also talks about why he said ... Father why have you forget about me (it was enough pain - he was asking to the other part of his spirit - the father - for the end of his suffering).

  • Crumpet
    Crumpet
    And so do you, digress - I mean - bringing your sordid CO fantasies to the board. Shame on you! hehe!
    This could explain why he wanted me to keep a few of my JW dresses.

    Oh god you two are making me piss myself laughing! Xena - I cant wait to meet you! In or out of a dress!

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Craig:Isa.53?

    Crumpet:
    Now you're coming to see why I luv her... she lets me dress up n stuff

    You MUST visit!

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    LT, Isaiah 53 is certainly a good choice, and, as a quick pass, the NIV says of verse 3: "sorrows. The Hebrew for this word is used of both physical and mental pain." There are many other words in the English translation of this chapter which could (I don't know for sure) have equally ambiguous meanings...but a thorough discussion of that whole chapter would take this thread way off topic?

    Maybe this weekend I'll get out my Gesenius and LXX and do a little checking.

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