Looks Like the Andersons Lost in Court

by Beep,Beep 94 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  timetochange

  HS,

  Above is quoted the First Amendment. As you will read, it was written into the US Constitution as a noble gesture in order to protect the religious and political freedom of majority and minorities.

  "to protect the religious and political freedom of majority and minorities", true.

  The WTS, and numerous other bodies have used this statement as a shield behind which all manner of anti-social behavior, such as shunning, can take place with impunity.

  No, this is actually a right of the minority, the right to interpret and apply their scriptures, their holy writings.

  Despite such organizations misusing and fracturing the spirit of the First Amendment, courts and individual judges have shrunk from taking action against religions who use the Amendment as a legal loophole from which the artfully escape justice for their sins.

  The amendment you quoted says in part: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

  Fracturing the spirit of the First Amendment? How do you interpret "prohibiting the free exercise thereof"? Please specify.

  I believe that a way to deal with the situation without overturning the spirit of the First Amendment iwould be to grant Government Licences to all religious bodies. These licences would ensure, by annual checks, that the religious bodies in question were not harming, or infringing upon the rights of its adherents. If they are found wanting, they should be fined, have their licences revoked, and be granted a period to reform their ways, failing this they would have all their assetts seized. In short, they should be placed under the same governmental constraints that any corporation is required to live by, and with the same accountability attached to their actions.Why is that we can bring to book a used car salesman who suggests that the car you are buying is more than it is, and yet religions who promise you eternal life with all that this involves, get away scott free when they cannot come up with the goods? Both are confidence tricks.

  I suggest you re-read the American Founding Fathers in particular Jefferson, Madison, Washington and Franklin. In their writings you will find the reasons for the necessity of the First Amendment and the applications thereof. The fact that you believe the First Amendment's application could in any way be applied as the laws pertaining to free commerce are applied is evidence of some ignorance on your part.

  What you suggest would negate, "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion...".

  Ed.
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  Big Tex

  WTS successes in the Courts are only such due to the Legal System and its fear of opening Pandora's Box where the First Amendment and European equivalents are concerned. It has nothing to do with the WTS being correct, ethically or morally, or from them having some hot-line to heaven over the issue. They have proved themselves to be repetitive and bold liars in Courts all over the US, so they have no high moral ground here.

  This I agree with 100%.

  Religion in America goes back to the very beginning of Europeans living on this contintent. As a result, with 400 years of tradition behind it, a court will be very leery of getting involved in a matter involving religion. The logical part of my brain understands, but the reality of decades of experience say otherwise.

  Sometimes I despair of real change ever coming in this life.

  And Grissom? I am embarassed for you. But I suspect that means nothing to you.

  Barbara and Joe are stellar people. I am proud to call them friends, and even more proud over their courageous stand.

  Chris
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  hillary_step

  Ed,

  The WTS, and numerous other bodies have used this statement as a shield behind which all manner of anti-social behavior, such as shunning, can take place with impunity.

  No, this is actually a right of the minority, the right to interpret and apply their scriptures, their holy writings.

  It is the right of all religions to intepret scripture, it is not the right of the religious minority, or the majority to put their adherents in harms way.

  Interpreting scripture is one thing, influencing others to follow an interpretation which abuses their civil rights, or leads them into harms way is not. Shunning for example, leads to emotional distress and has resulted in numerous suicides over the past forty years, yet the WTS consistently wins any case bought before the courts citing the First Amendment. Why is this?

  This is using the First Amendment and not living by the First Amendment. The WTS for example, does not allow minorities to worship freely among its own body, it persecutes such ones, eventually shunning them - so they cannot claim to have any moral high ground here - they are merely using what tools are at their disposal to continue peddling their interpretation of scripture because the courts lack the courage to deal with what is a huge issue, and one that needs to be dealt with. The French are dealing with such issues as we speak, to the detriment of cults and high-control religions in their community, including the WTS. One day the US will display a similar courage.

  What you have here is a legal loophole, and it is being used to the full by cults and high-control religions such as the WTS, Scientologists and Mormons.

  HS
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  grissom6471

  "I dont think it was so much wanting to be a part of that organization, it was the fact that their children were now supposed to shun them. Hey since this is a Tennessee story, I wonder if my local paper picked it up today or yesterday? Bob (Honesty), did you see it in the Knoxville paper yet?" I would shun them too because the Andersons did evil things against Jesus' followers.
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  grissom6471

  The WTBTS does not protect any child molesters.
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  VM44

  I wonder if Olin Moyle would have won his case against the Watch Tower if it were tried today.

  Courts back in the early 1940's found the Watchtower Guilty of publishing libel against Moyle and awarded him $10,000.

  Today the courts would probably say it was "an internal church matter" and dismiss the case.

  --VM44
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  looking_glass

  I would shun them too because the Andersons did evil things against Jesus' followers.

  Grissom666 - Too bad you don't believe in shunning us, because that would make you go away.

  As for JWs being followers of Jesus. I hate to tell you this, but being a 3rd Gen JW, I never saw much Jesus going on in that religion.

  And as for your prior comments, well thank goodness we have peeps like you to keep us all resolute in our way of thinking, because of you and your condemnation of anything that is outside YOUR box of right and wrong well that just reaffirms ME AND MY HOUSEHOLD that you are a fruit loop short of a box!

  Maybe you should go to some other site and haunt them for a while.
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  Big Tex

  The WTBTS does not protect any child molesters.

  The HELL it does!

  What the fuck do you know?!

  My father, a ministerial servant in a Dallas area congregation molested me. I was told by a circuit overseer, who sat in my living room, (quote): "Either you shut up about your father or I'll see to it personally that you are disfellowshipped." That was 1988 chief. And you know what? He's still a ministerial servant in good standing. I was forbidden to attend my mother's funeral, not because I am disfellowshipped (quite the contrary I am still in good standing to this day even though I haven't attended a moronic meeting in years) -- no it was because I came forward about my father's abuse of me. The elder who gave my mother's funeral talk in fact deliberately left me out. And that is the "loving" organization of Jehovah.

  It's people like you that allow child abuse to continue. It's people like you that turn a blind eye toward monsters who loook good, get their time in, suck up to the right people, while behind closed doors they do monstrous things to innocents. But what the hell do you care? People like you are much more interested in the abstract, in the debate rather than reality.

  Frankly I say people like Barbara and Joe are invaluable. People like this have the courage to fight an impossible fight, not only against centuries of legal traditioin, and a corporate religious sect with an unlimited legal budget, but they care enough to talk about it. They care enough about the people who were hurt, some of whom did not survive the trauma, and so they take the entire matter to the public stage.

  If you had common human decency, you would understand that the only way to fight horrors of child abuse is to shine light upon it. Abuse works best in the dark, in secret and in denial. It is people like you who foster such an atmospher. It is people like Barbara who fight to change it.
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  candidlynuts

  grissom, under the "best of" series here at this board you will find many experiences.. there are many many threads . its not our imagination nor is it apostate lies. its true histories of how the watchtower has handled pedophila.i dont blame you for feeling protective of the watchtower over this issue. i used to feel the same way.its caused by being insulated within your own experiences and ignorance....i thought the instances i knew of were isolated to just my rural area. but as i got older i realized it was a system wide trend caused by watchtower official policies.

  here is the link to the above mentioned threads. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/32/76846/1.ashx

  there are a couple of detailed instances in my own experience, of the witnesses protecting known child molesters at my blog http://www.candidlynuts.blogspot.com/
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  hillary_step

  Chris,

  I suspect that Grissom is young at least emotionally, unchallenged by life, socially inept outside of their 'faith', and with all the false confidence and dismal arrogance that can only come from somebody who has been mentally groomed to think themselves right as long as they parrot their Brooklyn Masters chant.

  One hopes that time and life will teach them that honor demands more noble things from the heart than preaching ever-changing doctrines as a manufactured means of saving their miserable lives, sometimes it demands that cowardice be put to rest and courage takes its place.

  HS