Maybe There's a Heaven...

by LittleToe 141 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Narkissos

  Ross,

  Ain't ecstatic linguistics fun?

  I think the common hype on the "meaning of names" is definitely overdone. In common speech a noun means something and a name points to someone. Even when they are strictly identical, when we use the name our mind sifts the "meaning" of the noun out. If you have a friend called Rose you don't think of the flower every time you mention her name. You can do it exceptionally but it implies an added meaning through an intended pun -- this is exactly how the "explanations of names" work in Bible stories. A Hebrew reader doesn't think of "laughter" every time s/he reads Isaac's name, only in the passages which make the pun explicit.

  So as far as a name is involved, an Aramaic reader/hearer would probably understand the common Aramaic form of the name which is Yeshua`.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua

  Broadening the topic (about different words for a similar experience), and as you seem to be lacking bedtime reading , I'd recommend the very very short novel Undr by Jorge Luis Borges, in The Book of Sand (El libro de arena).
• 

  hillary_step

  Ross,

  What convinced you that you were speaking to "empty air"?

  An interesting question.

  It was slow process through which many walk. Though I became a JW as a young man my problem was always rationalising the 'Beauty and the Beast' side of God and in many ways I have returned to that particular territory.

  It was amazing to me how quickly, once I began to do some *real* research about the Bible, how it got to be the Bible, the nonsense of Genesis, the pre-dating of Christ's 'miracles' in other much earlier non-Jewish and Christian writers, etc, ec. how my faith in a book that I had kept so close to my heart disappeared so very quickly. It was not an emotional experience, but an intellectual one.

  I am still a reluctant disbeliever. I would love to believe that there is some grand purpose behind our existence, that somewhere a God of love is poised ready to put our dreams into a reality. I lost both my parents as a young man. I would love to believe that one day I will get the opportunity to apologize for the years I neglected them while under the influence of the WTS, but alas, the more I study the matter, the less I believe.

  I envy the believer, though I believe that at some level an element of delusion ( I use this word in its more benign form ) is present.

  Best regards - HS
• 

  JamesThomas

  Interesting thread you got going here, Ross.

  May I suggest that there is that which is not alive, but rather is Life itself. There is that which is not loving or loved, but rather is Love itself. This actuality is the foundational reality of what we all are, what all existence IS. Sometimes it shines through the dense mind-generated life-story, and is quickly interpreted, labeled, flavored, colored and incorporated into the story.

  The tale may be that it was some separate thing or some individual that touched us; when actually and truly this indescribably immediate, intimate, pure and vast Unity/Oneness/Love, is what we are. It's you.

  j
• 

  OUTLAW

  Little Toe..My mistake..I thought this had just happened..I reread you initial post,you were "Reflecting" on a past conversation with your Mrs..After 5years I doubt the feeling will pass..I have Christian friends with similar experiences..How they feel will never leave them..I`d put money on that bet...OUTLAW
• 

  Sirona

  Hi LT,

  I haven't read the entire thread, just your initial post. I thought I'd comment on it before reading further. Firstly, it is great to see you posting like this.

  It took me two days before I could process it and come back with an answer, which was along the lines of "simply put, I love Christ. I REALLY love him. In fact I love him so much that I'd rather be in hell with him than in heaven without him!

  I cannot comprehend this, but I respect it greatly. To be honest when I read those words all I can think is that you are truly blessed.

  Right from the beginning I found the whole experience incredibly humbling. I still feel that way. I feel in no position to judge anyone, as may be seen in quite a number of my posts here. You can believe it's genuine.

  It is. Five years of being your friend tells me it most certainly is genuine because I am Pagan and you are Christian and never once in the whole time we've known each other have you ever come across as though you feel superior. In fact, we've had some pretty good discussions on the subject and I believe we've both gained from those discussions.

  There are so many people here that I feel are far far better than I. Brighter, smarter, passionate, more loving, more caring, all the things that I hold in high esteem.

  Where? Who? There are those who have those qualities and more, but they are no better (or worse for that matter). We all have our part to play.

  It just seems that love is rarely truly deserved, it just seems to be given and sometimes reciprocated - what a wonderfully inefficient and gracious transaction!

  We all deserve love, IMHO. One thing we will agree on though - Praise God (Goddess) for our lives and our loves and the chance to know and be.

  Sirona
• 

  Deputy Dog

  LT

  I find it interesting that people react more to your emotional reaction than what prompted it. Why is it so hard to believe that you see things differently now?

  Working in New York after 9/11. I had very strong emotional reactions to what I saw and experienced. The experience changed my life forever. I will always see life through that filter.

  So, why is it so hard for people to understand that an encounter with the real Jesus (God) would change a life forever? Even if the encounter was simply from the bible. (I know it was much more)

  I still get emotional thinking about 9/11 and I get emotional thinking about my faith, those feelings come and go. But, knowing who Jesus is, has changed the way I see life. Just as 9/11 has (only Jesus much more so).
• 

  Bumble Bee

  Hello Little Toe,

  I haven't read all the responses to your first post....

  I like to think there is something after we leave this earth. I'm not sure what or where right now. I'm still trying to sort out things and leave behind the JW mindset. It's not always easy, and I take frequent "breaks" and just try to see where life and my innermost thoughts take me.

  One of the things that comforted me the most after my father died was a comment from one of his caregivers. She was not JW, really didn't know what JW's believed etc and this was her first JW funeral.

  She was trying her best to cheer me up at the funeral. My father had a lenghty illness, had both legs amputated etc. She told me to just think how happy my father was now. He was in heaven, with both his legs, walking with Jesus. When I'm feeling down and missing him, I think of her comment, and like to think that it could be true.

  Maybe there is a Heaven ............

  BB
• 

  toreador

  Hello Ros,

  You wrote at Post 15321

  In my own case it was Christ rather than Jehovah. Maybe that was a more acceptable way for me to access something that clearly wasn't the "Jehovah" that I had previously been shackled to?

  Certainly I found the concept of worshipping Christ abhorrent, but that turned around in a few minutes of my initial experience, and grew rapidly from there."

  Ok, how on earth did you know it was Christ and not Jehovah?? Did this spirit tell you his name??

  Tor
• 

  hemp lover

  I read this thread at lunch today and I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. Guess I have to break down and post.

  Here's one thing I've been thinking about:

  They listen to all these stories about experiences and start wanting them themselves, and get disillusioned when they don't transpire. As with most things spiritual it works the other way around. You keep an open mind and the experience finds you.

  And here's another:

  What convinced you that you were speaking to "empty air"?

  And here's the part where I'd like to be articulate (open?) enough to explain why these words made me feel the way I do right now or even to explain what feeling that is, but I just don't have them (the words, that is). I suppose it'll just have to be good enough that I thought about it at all.

  An area that is of more interest to me is why a certain sensation should consistently accompany a desire to pray for someone far away, with a result that through the experience of hindsight I can now come to expect. With one sensation I can expect the result to be death, and with another sensation I can expect to shortly be overwhelmed with an empathic coordination with their innermost emotions (which sux when it's grief), and so on. These are not self generated, as I have experienced being woken in the middle of the night by such things, driving along a road, or being in the middle of a conversation when it occurs. Thus I have no way of providing evidence that could be subjected to scientific rigour.

  This is fascinating. I'd love to hear more of the details someday, either online or off.

  Ya know, it's threads like this that have kept me coming back here for the last five years. Just when I start to get bored or feel that it's all so repetitious, I read something that may or may not (jury's still out) change my way of thinking or give me the boot in the arse (about tit) that I need to keep trying what's never seemed to work before. Tonight I may just attempt to talk to "empty air" for the first time in years.
• 

  toreador

  An area that is of more interest to me is why a certain sensation should consistently accompany a desire to pray for someone far away, with a result that through the experience of hindsight I can now come to expect. With one sensation I can expect the result to be death, and with another sensation I can expect to shortly be overwhelmed with an empathic coordination with their innermost emotions (which sux when it's grief), and so on. These are not self generated, as I have experienced being woken in the middle of the night by such things, driving along a road, or being in the middle of a conversation when it occurs. Thus I have no way of providing evidence that could be subjected to scientific rigour.

  You get a sensation which the result is death? Please explain! I have woken in the night with terror also and the feeling that I cant move even though I try very hard I am unable to move. This is just a nightmare from which I have not awoken from completely, not a spirit being attemping to talk to me.

  Tor