Have you ever had an encounter with a UFO?

by free2beme 69 Replies latest jw friends

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    Auld - you ask:

    Can you account for why you believe an FTL capable ET species would think like a carbon-based mammal just barely out of the trees?

    Same reason the Vulcans showed themselves as soon as we developed the Warp Drive. They knew it was only a matter of time until James T. Kirk would be heading up the Enterprise, pumping the Klingons and Romulans full of phaser fire, (with the odd Photon Torpedo here and there), and casually seducing not only all the various racial spectrum of female crew members, but all attractive aliens encountered on the strange new worlds discovered.

    Logical, eh? - the courage to go where no man has gone before. They know they have to think like us to ever be assimilated into the federation.

  • skyking
    skyking

    Damn, I know I would have to bask in ABaDDON's glory as he so adeptly proved me wrong.

    Abaddon the GREAT, can you forgive me, PLEASE, I'll never think without you telling me were my thinking is wrong, Ho great one.

  • free2beme
    free2beme

    We are raised to defend are stance on issues, even when it is an issue that is considered a strong possiblity in the world, as we were Witnesses. That is why people sometimes take defending their thoughts to what seem a little extreme.

  • Aphrodite
    Aphrodite

    Abaddon, we think lions are special compared to us, what about dolphins and every other living thing? So why wouldn't aliens think we are special enough to study?

  • Thirdson
    Thirdson

    No, not me, but my brother has...and it happened in England not the USA. A UK "UFO Expert" related an incident on a Discovery channel program that sounded just like my brother's account (he was interviewed by some "expert'). My brother's wife also saw a ghost in the same house he witnessed the UFO from.

    Me? I'm just a sceptic.

    3rd

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    AuldSoul

    Similar paths of technological development is quite a reasonable assumption if you study how innovation and discovery works. You can't have a technology involving manipulating electrons until you know there are electrons to manipulate and know how to manipulate them; thus the lack of TV's before the discovery of electromagnatism and the electron.

    I can see statistically Earth doesn't stand out if we use available evidence, which as it is what we have is certainly better than speculating by ignoring available evidence. We know for a certainty they will not need Earth for resources. Such advanced civilisation would (given where we are after 200 years of proper science) be able to artificially manipulate their biology to an extent we can only begin to speculate on. I don't need pie-charts for this.

    Unless most speculation is wrong and life is a very rare thing it is unlikely the nature of OUR life would be of interest to a alien civilisation of FTL-level savvy as the amount of life in the Universe and the resources of any one civilisation to study it would mean each occurance of life would have a very small statistical chance of having an FTL-level alien race examine it. Again, no pie-charts needed.

    I think you are excluding every suggested possibility based on terran thinking, and applying terran thinking to the probable behavior of ETs. Can you account for why you believe an FTL capable ET species would think like a carbon-based mammal just barely out of the trees?

    Your own postion or advocacy of a position where they have interest in us or have progressed so far they don't notice us is based on the same terran thinking. Thus it is the logical validity and statistical liklihood of claims I examine.

    I tend to tie this in with the pervading human belief of 'specialness' seen in the beliefs of every culture of humans. Each culture thinks it is 'special'. Even in sci-fi there is a common assumption that humans will be 'special' when they meet other intelligent races.

    I feel there is more likely there is a psychological need in humans to feel we would be special and to attract the of ET's, or god, or whatever, when in fact we are not special unless we make ourselves so and both that and the definiton of that is up to us.

    Aphrodite

    Abaddon, we think lions are special compared to us, what about dolphins and every other living thing? So why wouldn't aliens think we are special enough to study?

    Mmmm... not so much the degree of specialness I suppose as the number of bugs to researchers.

    Statistics.

    If life is uncommon in the Universe, given the scale of the Universe it would be widely scattered in space and time, and an intelligent example of life getting to interact at all with another intelligent example of life would be quite unlikely. Somewhere in the region of a small finate number divided by a virtually infinate number or close enough to zero to be getting along with. There would be few researchers and few bugs in an effectively infinate forest and the two would never be likely to meet.

    If life is common in the Universe and there is a small chance of each example developing to intelligence, we again have a low chance of interaction, a finate number divided by a virtually infinate one. There would be few researchers and lots of bugs in an effectively infinate forest and an individual bug would be unlikely to get the attention of one of the few researchers in an effectively infinate forest

    If life is common in the Universe and intelligent life is also (comparatively) common the chance of interaction is higher, as we are dividing a very high finate number by a virtually infinate number. There would be lots of researchers and lots of bugs in an effectively infinate forest. Still a small chance based on how many rocks don't have bugs under them...

    Thus alien contact is most likely in a Universe where life and intelligent life is common. And virtually impossible in other scenarios purely on the basis of statistics.

    For us to be worthy of special study when we are one of many pre-star-travel civilisation is very small unless one assumes that aliens (all of their efforst put together) devote fantastic levels of resources to such study by doing it all the time to all possible planets. To assume they would devote large resources requires some motivation, and there is none in this scenario as we and our solar system are just commonplace, as are most solar systems.

    We would be less special than lions, in other words. About the level of some bug that ate leaf-litter in the Amazonian forest. There are a lot of these and whilst some people are interested in them the chance of any one species of bug being studied is very very small; most are not even catalogued or known yet.

    This solar system is far more likely to be famous as a place where oxygen-breathing life-forms can witness a full solar eclipse on the surface of a planet with an oxygen atmosphere than it is because humans are special.

    Having a sun 40 x larger than a satelite 40x further away is probably a rare thing, as is an oxygen atmosphere.

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    Interesting point made just previously, so, let me quote the above poster:

    We would be less special than lions, in other words. About the level of some bug that ate leaf-litter in the Amazonian forest.

    I continue this proposition with the following:

    Let us say we really found some lowly microbe on Mars that had a little different DNA than anything we ever found on earth. (or, maybe no DNA at all!!! - yikes - hope it is not contagious!!!).

    Would that not be well worth all the money and expense of all the space shots from Dr. Von Braun onward? Specifically, worth more than some leaf-eater in the Amazon, or more special than any lion or tiger?

    Why else do we "reach for the stars"?

    Maybe this "UFO phenomenon" is a mental release for humans who feel very alone in this vast cosmos.

    Maybe the "God & Religion" phenomenon is another manifestation of much the same thing.

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    Abaddon,

    Very few reports of interaction with humans are without the involvement, at some point, of a "Regression Therapist." Few enough that mental illness can easily account for that entire number.

    I am not advocating that we are special enough for their interest. I don't believe they have a particular interest in humans, per se, except to the degree that we might extinguish life on our own planet through stupid science. The age old question of, "Why?" is all too often answered, "Because we can." Dangerous, stupid humans. Perhaps they wish to preserve the quality of our water resources. Perhaps you are correct in your guess that they can manipulate biology to a significant degree, perhaps the most advanced species on earth (the cockroach) is evidence of that.

    I obviously don't know that the cockroach is the most advanced species on earth, but I am guessing the perspective of ETs on special value is vastly different from our own.

    We are currently seeking viable methods of terraforming various bodies in our near space. Perhaps Earth is being transformed into a planet suitable for habitation. Perhaps life is very rare, and did not originate here. Just as life did not originate on the moon, and yet, one giant leap for mankind brought life to the moon.

    You see, each of your so-called "statistical probabilities" for which you don't even pretend to have actual statistics has an equally "probable" (a farcical notion in this context) counterpoint that would cause all of your statistics to be reworked.

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    Fascinating.

    AuldSoul writes -

    Just as life did not originate on the moon, and yet, one giant leap for mankind brought life to the moon.

    I somehow still imagine that the moon is to this day way "cleaner" than your average hospital operating room (even after a good old BetaDyne scrubbing).

    (Just a feeling, but the Van Allen Belt was not a mid-fifties cocktail - how's that for some magnetic "proof"?)

    James

    PS - ask me about my Werner Von Braun joke...

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    Hey, james_woods...can you tell me more about your Werner Von Braun joke?

    [how was that?]

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