WT monitors sites? (page 7)

mouthy

You mean active elders come here and post but tell their flock it's evil? No way. Not those loving elders who care so deeply for their flocks.

I remember a loving brother who talked so much about the evils of booze.Drank like a fish. But then I also remember one who was really a great help to many-..... But his wife was a drinker.... Poor soul he had a lot to hide ---His wife was a JW.... But I spoke to her once about it & she told me how when she was six. in Montreal ...they used to get arrested for preaching. The car load she was in all was arrested she had to sit in the police station with the cops for 6 hours.... She had a bag of egg & onion sandwiches that began to smell very much .... I think of her today... what a trauma to go through at six no wonder she turned to another comforter BOOZE

Well it happens in politcs also listen to >FOLEY!!!! ????

PandaPet

The techno details of how it is done is not as much an issue to me as the fact that I believe they WOULD do it. Isn't the entire congregation setup as spies, one against another? No one can live within their realm and not be subject to the gossiping, tattling and back-biting included in the congregation. This doesn't even touch the way everyone throws each other to the wolves anytime the elders start sniffing around.

This sounds all too plausible. Knowledge, whether good or bad, is the key to exercising control over people who are already so ready to have their free will micro-managed.

Gordy

I have received another mail from my contact who gave me the information as posted first.

I copy it below as they sent it to me, in it he clarifies a few points:

I looked up the thread you started on JW.com

There are some clever people there - and some right idiots.

FYI COMVERSE is not the Israel Secret Service - thats called MOSSAD - headed by David Goran. COMVERSE is a New York NASDQ company that was started by a small group of Israeli and English people and now headed up by Ze'evi Bregman. Their board is mainly Americans.

BTW did you spot the society mole in that discussion - he stands out a mile
To record conversations you need a single Voice system ( JW's case its Meridian made by Nortel) and an answering/ recording system (In this case made by COMVERSE - but could be anyone, Lucent, Nortel, Alcatel, ADC, Toshiba etc etc etc). In parts of the States it is legal to record calls so long as one of the parties knows it is being recorded -or where its an employer (for training and quality purposes) - so it is not an unusual system by any means.

The difference here is that they have set the system up to "trap" the unwary -- ie payphones, Emails etc etc.

Why are they doing this? The answer is really very simple. Up until Bill Bowen , apostates were never really "organised" - and if they were then it was just isolated "sour grapes".

Now there are causes - Silentlambs, UN etc - and the power of the internet. They are not worried about JW.com per say - or indeed the high profile characters on there (Like you - they know many as an enemy)

They ARE worried about the unknown enemy within, the leaks, the undeclared disaffected, the secret Homosexuals. "everytime Bethel do something the Apostates know about it before us" said one DO I know in 2004. The leaks of the letters regarding Child Molestation (on both sides of the atlantic) sent shockwaves through the WT - and since then its got worse

For the first time the enemy (the apostates) are getting organised under one banner (child molestation) on an issue that the Society has condemmed the Churches for- and that scares the shit out of them - and its global - and its potentially expensive.

They therefore adopted a 4 fold policy - usual in corporate USA

1. deny everthing or "it was a mistake by one individual who has since been removed, we have undergone training to recitfy the situation and it was an isolated incident"

2. Keep our heads down and don't comment - eventually the enemy will run out of steam

3. Don't publicise their issues with our comment - everyone keep "on message"

4. Fight everything legally - the opposition will eventually run out of money - and we have deeper pocket than the enemy do. Win small victorys on the way, and make the most of them.

They are defending themselves in any and every way they can, but they must stop the leaks. Thats why they are paranoid. The leaks have slowed down now, but they are still vigilant

BTW if they identify an elder - or an elders houshold - as being a "potential leaker" then they alert the CO who, on his next visit makes a point of raising Fear, uncertainty and doubt about brother elders spirituality, record keeping, bible studies and then get them removed that way. That way he has been removed because of "His needing spiritual upbuilding" - but knock him down to an MS so he doesn't get hold of anything, and the WT still has control over him.

The issue here is that the watchers of the congregation, ones that keep the congregation in line - are being "corrupted by the apostates message" (never thinking that they have seen through the WT Bullshit) - so traditional watchtower systems are not always working, hence the need for extra vigilance to spot the enemy within

Hope that explains the situation a bit better

Jourles

Gordy, everything he said makes perfect sense. This had me wondering though:

BTW did you spot the society mole in that discussion - he stands out a mile

I sure hope he wasn't referring to me. If he wasn't referring to myself, who else stood "out a mile?"

sir82

but knock him down to an MS so he doesn't get hold of anything, and the WT still has control over him.

This statement right here tells me that this "source" is just blowing steam out of an orifice.

Never, ever, does an elder get "knocked down" to MS. If he doesn't qualify as an "elder", he is removed from any and all positions of responsibility - no exceptions.

I've observed numerous elder removals over many years and several congregations, and the topic of "well, let's make him an MS instead" is never even considered. It's just not "theocratic procedure".

This blatant misconception of what really goes on throws doubt upon the credibility of anyhing else stated in the post above.

ackack

sir82: though it does seem odd, i recall this exact thing happening. a po in scarborough was "knocked down" to MS. at the time though, in all fairness, we thought it was really unusual. we asked everyone, "have you ever heard of this happening before?" but we got no positive responses. (even from my elder dad). so, unusual yes, never happened, no.in all fairness though, this leak could just be educated guess work. there is nothing terribly significant in it. if you didn't know to use caution in browsing from any bethel internet resource albeit wifi or lan, then you're just dumb. like i said before, ssh tunnel to a proxy, and you're safe. (unless they get a hold of your machine itself)ackack

aniron

I've know Elders demoted to MS through my years as a JW.

The excuse given to me was that when they could be an Elder again, it was easier to do it from them being an MS than having to make them an MS then wait then an Elder.

TD

Jourles,

Now, when someone replies to the thread or to your post, a log entry is added to your webserver that shows their public IP address, the url they are replying or posting to, their operating system, and web browser along with a timestamp at the front. You simply correlate the timestamp to a reply.

Good (Old) trick, but very easy to defeat. For example, I have an active VPN connection to a client's server open at the moment. The entry in your log will not only be the wrong IP, it will be an entirely different ISP in a different city as well

avengers

I looked up the thread you started on JW.com

There are some clever people there - and some right idiots.

Hey!

Are you talking to me?

wonder what right idiots are?, but then maybe I'm one.

Andy.

Jourles

For example, I have an active VPN connection to a client's server open at the moment. The entry in your log will not only be the wrong IP, it will be an entirely different ISP in a different city as well

Yep, the same could go for anyone who uses their company's internet connection. For instance mine - I am in Lansing, MI, but my IP looks as if it comes from TX. All of our employee's internet traffic, nationwide, (if they're on our WAN, including if they VPN into the network) funnels down to TX.

You can usually tell the difference between a home user from a company user. The home user's reverse IP name typically says comcast or charter or whoever the isp is. Some corporate IP's may not even have a fully qualified name on a reverse lookup so it would be hard to tell who "owns" it. But my point was, most people just surf from their home pc without using a vpn or proxy of some sort to mask where they are coming from. These are the people you can narrow down their location to.

WT monitors sites?

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