Grand and Lesser Apostate Delusions

by slimboyfat 100 Replies latest jw friends

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    What is it makes some of those wacky apostates appear from time to time claiming Russell and the Witnesses were/are all part of some great freemason/illuminati plot? I'll tell you what it is, and it may explain a few other things for you too! People who come up with these theories demonstrate a basic psychological insecurity stemming from their involvement and subsequent disentanglement from the Witnesses. Not willing to accept that they were simply "taken in" for a while by a rather ideosyncratic and somewhat falsifiable ideology, they wish to believe that what actually snared them was something grander and far more sophisticated: a highly organized deception machine bent on knowing exploitation and conspiracy. "After all the Witness organization must be more complicated than it superficially appears, else how could someone as bright as myself have been duped by it?" (the apostate reasons to himself)

    However, not many apostates fall into that "illuminati camp" of grand delusion you may protest, and while that may be true it is the same basic delusion which inspires most of the outlandish criticism of the Witnesses that somehow passes for common sense on this forum. Often apostates make such ridiculous claims about the Witness leadership acting in underhanded ways, of being Machiavellian and disingenuous. I am not saying that there may not be a handful of individuals in the organization who don't really believe and are only in it for the power or the money or whatever. But is clearly nonsense to claim, as apostates here often do in a matter-of-fact sort of way that the leadership en masse is simply interested in making money, or that they are purposely trying to lie to people in their publications. Such constructions of the reality take such a dim view of the inner consciences of persons involved in the movement as to be entirely incredible. So why won't apostates simply accept that Witnesses are well-intentioned yet simply misguided? It is because they can apparently take more comfort in taking refuge from a supposedly "evil" organization "out to deceive" than in simply wishing to differ and take their leave from a group who have stong convictions and a faith that they can no longer share. The whole JR Brown interview/UN "scandal"/anti-Jaracz frenzy/outlandish attacks on Rutherford's character/(plus a hundred other allegations) are all symptoms of the same psychologically skewed perspective.

    Such perspectives may not have the same stature as the beast that is the "freemason conspiracy" phenomenon, but they are not an entirely different species either...

    Slim

  • youcanhaveago
    youcanhaveago

    You are talking about "damaged people" - so who damaged them ?

    A little empathy is needed I think .

  • Zico
    Zico

    This was my viewpoint. Until I found out about the Mexico/Malawi issues.

    You can't look into that and deny that the leaders of the Watchtower Organisation care more about money (buildings) than they do about their members.

  • under_believer
    under_believer

    Not getting enough attention lately, are we sbf? Time to put down the entire board again?

    First of all, I'm not an apostate. I reject that title.

    Secondly, your screed is far too generalized and paints with broad strokes. I entirely agree with you about the illuminati/freemasonry people (because I am allergic to conspiracy theories). I even agree about your identification of their motive--it's hard to believe that what you see is what you get with the Witnesses, because if it fooled ME (or whoever) it must be some kind of sinister plot, or be using hypnosis, or something.

    But there are well-documented cases for some of the other things you mention--for example, the Creation book is a model of disingenuous, twisted, misleading quotations from scientists. It's full of deliberate lies. The Trinity brochure is the same way. Rutherford was a well-known drunk. Etc.

    If you really want to discuss some of these issues I suggest taking them up in separate topics.

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    I welcome your perspective and accept that it is valid to you. On the other hand you are only 24, I doubt your experience with the witnesses and my experience are very similar.

  • skyking
    skyking

    WOW, do you think the JW's are correct and you are deffending them?

  • parlay
    parlay

    Were the Pharisees well-intentioned yet simply misguided? Or had they started power tripping?

    The Governing Body answer to no one except God and we have to take their word for that.

    They have tremendous influence and power. Lord Acton, a British historian of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries said

    'Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    You ask, "So why won't apostates simply accept that Witnesses are well-intentioned yet simply misguided?"

    Many see them as modern day Pharisees.

  • Beardo
    Beardo
    that "illuminati camp" of grand delusion

    Sounds like somebody hasn't done his research ...

    Johann Adam Weishaupt (* 6 February1748 in Ingolstadt; † 18 November1830 in Gotha) was a German who founded the Order of Illuminati.

    There, there, run along nicely now and tuck into your favourite snack or fantasy TV program.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Under-Believer,

    The Creation book does contain the clearest examples of misquotes I have seen presented. However, it has been pointed out that the author relied heavily on creationist propaganda and most likely picked up the misquotes second-hand without realising they grossly misrepresented the original sources they came from. So once again this is a case where apostates have imputed the worst possible motives to Witnesses in leadership positions, yet the evidence points to the much more mundane conclusion that the misquotes were a result of lazy research poorly presented. As for the Trinity brochure - despite all the Evangelical hype on the subject I have still to see a single example of a clear misquotation in that publication. Fundamentalists don't like that Witnesses have often appealed to liberal scholars in making their case, but that is hardly a crime, and the supposed "misquotes" do not amount to much when not read with their ferocious theological bias on view.

    And if it is really so clear that Rutherford was a drunk they why do you have to reply on the perennial vacuous argument: "everybody knows".

    I am glad that you share my conclusion on the wellspring of the delusion that the illuminati crowd suffer from, but hope that you may also be "enlightened" as to the psychological sources of the persistence of your belief in the lesser apostate delusions I have outlined.

    Slim

  • skyking
    skyking

    UN "scandal you mentioned this. Once again WOW, I was asked to do some work for three big Mormon Churches were I live in 1997 remember the Society joined the as an NGO though the DPI of UN in 1991. I told the Mormon Church I could do the work. I was threatened with a Law Suit because I was the only person license in my area to legally preform the work. I wrote the Society and asked for either the right to do the work or would they protect me form a law suit. Guess what I was told I was on my own because I was the one choosing to not work for the Church and if I did change my mind and did the work I would be DF'd. The letter said even if I did incidental work the any church or organization that sole purpose is against GOD I would be DF'd they then told me to look at a 1964 Watchtower that also stated this. In this letter the Society sent me it said, we have taken the liberty of send a copy of your letter and our response to your congregation and to your CO.

    I believe Join the NGO's at least would fall under the term incidental. Look up the word in my dictionary the words meaning is. Little importance, accidental,minor or casual or subordinate in significance or nature or occurring as a chance concomitant or consequence;

    So if they even accidentally join the NGO's the Society should be removed from before gods eyes. Joining the NGO's was much more than by an incidental occurrence.

    Now tell me again they had the right to Join the NGO's of the UN

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