Let's just get something straight about 1975. (page 12)

sf

Lady Liberty,

You have contributed a great deal of insight and "pure truth" in this thread for lurkers and seekers.

Thank you. I enjoy your posts very much.

sKally

As has already been mentioned... but I will say again... IF anyone at a local level - I.E. in a kingdom hall at a meeting - had said '1975 is the year for Armageddon', by the 'rules' of the WTBTS, they would have been 'running ahead', and would have been expulsed from the religion via their 'disfellowshipping' technique. There would have then been talks given as to how we shouldn't get ahead of what is being said by Brooklyn, etc.

None of this happened. What did happen?

Talks were given at large assemblies of people - by men representing Brooklyn - reading from manuscripts - who indicated by their words that Armageddon would most likely happen in 1975.

Many were told to 'pioneer'. 'Do not marry'. 'Do not have children'. etc.

None of these speakers at assemblies were disfellowshipped for speaking these words.

Regards,

Jim TX

P.S. If you weren't there... sorry you missed it. *weak grin*

R6Laser

Lady Liberty, thank you very much for your post. That is the same thing I'm trying to say, just not as eloquent as you put it.

Lets say I want to explain to my family that the wts planned all this, well first thing they want me to show is where did the wts print this. Obviously the wts either covered its tracks too good because I can't say for certain that I can come up with a printed copy of the wts saying 'specifically' that the end was coming in 1975 or 1994 or whatever date you want to say.

And saying that some one in the wts said it first is not going to cut it as proof. There's a lot of things said by elders that have no proof and that's the whole point, many people in the kingdom hall come up with some crazy ideas and propagate them as the truth. Example being my own uncle who was an elder telling me that I would never graduate college because the end would come before that, and I was wasting my time. Where did my uncle get that idea? I don't know, because I never read it in any publication. But it was mentioned and I agree that many of the folks who were part of the congregation beleived the same thing.

On the other hand you had other members of the congregation who lived their lives just normal, their kids going to college, trying to get better jobs and so forth. There seemed to be different types of folks in the congregation, those who took everything seriously and did everything they were told. And those who while still attending meetings but at the same thing kept things leveled in their own lives, looking for a way to better their own future by whatever means necessary and not getting caught in ridiculous teachings.

Warlock

Whatever!

Warlock

R6Laser

We were told we were wasting our time trying to make a life in this system. Some of us tried to follow, to the letter, what we were taught. No education, no house, no saving for old age, and in some cases, NO CHILDREN! I remember the words of the speaker who said, at a D.C. at Dodger Stadium "this is NOT the time to be having children". My wife begged me to have a child, but I had second, third and fouth thoughts about it because of this speakers words. If we had done what he said, we wouldn't have the beautiful 20 year old child we have now

I understand what you're saying. But I'm going to go back to my own point and mention that this was not said by the wts, it was mentioned by a speaker who put his own words into it. I know what it is like to be told something like that, my own uncle(who was an elder) told me I wouldn't need to worry about college because i wasn't going to finish it due to the armageddon getting here before I would be able to finish it. But those were his words and nobody else's. I didn't beleive him them because I knew my uncle was a hardcore jw and he would always put spiritual things first, everything else comes second to him.

That is where I'm trying to get at, to understand them you have to know that to the really zealous type of jw, the spiritual things comes first, even before family, jobs or anything at all. I know because I lived it, my uncle was like that my mother still is. To them it doesn't matter if they find themselves without a job tomorrow because they still beleive so much in their system. It is a real challenge to try and reason with them because they will not be convinced at all. I learned this with my mother. Now to me is better just to let her be happy with her beliefs. Which is what I'm doing. My point of view is, why try and change them if they don't want to change? Eventually if they realize and open their eyes and change, then I'll be happy. But if not I'll be just as happy and not try and change them forcefully. Afterall that's what most in the wts religion try to do.

Warlock

He was from Bethel. Do you think his words were not approved by the WTS?

Warlock

youcanhaveago

Lets get something staight about 1975 .

Lets be honest.

Lets tell the truth.

As a young man I grew up to be totally reasurred by my elders ( in more than one sense of that word) that Armeggedon would occur in 1975 , All of us young ones were encouraged to believe that , it was all we could identify as a fixed point in our lives , I abandoned a promising education that costs me dearly until this day . There was no future because everything would change in 1975 , We all worked out how old we would be in that year we tried to figure out how mature we would be , how we would cope with all the big things that would happen . No one - absolutely no one discouraged us from this train of thought . It was a nailed on certainty .

We were lied to.

Thats the truth .

Rabbit

Nobody ever said that the end was coming in 1975.

Nobody...Nobody...???

Obviously you were not in my Hall or my Circuit or my District pre-75 in Ft.Worth, Texas ! EVERYONE I knew of that was a JW including all the O's...PO's, CO's, DO's, that I worked with as a Reg. Pioneer absolutely believed it would be 1975 !

They said it personally out in service and from the podium at the KH's and the assemblies and they led you mentally and emotionally to 1975 in every comment that came out of their mouths on that subject.

How...how...could such a highly controlled group of 'sub' leaders (the O's) who in turn controlled and invaded all the personal lives and minds of the R & F...possibly make a "mistake" in not understanding the GB's words ? That would had had the same odds as the proverbial "Snow ball in Hell". (Think a Catholic Hell )

This argument that the followers "went ahead" of the GB has always been false. THEY have always been the ONLY teachers and everyone else that is not a GB member -- has always been mere followers.

Lastly, the "followers" have been taught & conditioned to respond positively to any suggestion from the GB, right ? The GB are true masters at the "Art of Suggestion"...JW's are just responding like the hypnotized subjects the 'masters' want.

Until something dramatic or personal happens to them that shakes their feet -- they will continue as followers and never as leaders of their own lives.

Rabbit

R6Laser

Obviously you were not in my Hall or my Circuit or my District pre-75 in Ft.Worth, Texas ! EVERYONE I knew of that was a JW including all the O's...PO's, CO's, DO's, that I worked with as a Reg. Pioneer absolutely believed it would be 1975 !

And how is this proof that the wts actually was the one who said this. Where is the written proof? Once again we are going by what someone said or what the PO's said. That's the whole point. That's what current beleivers would tell you, you were following what someone said not wha was written down by the wts. Once again just because someone is up in the front preaching doesn't mean a thing, I was there and I made much of the stuff I said from the platform. It wasn't really what the wts had outlined me to say. So its not really proof.

If anything this is proof that most were following what people said, did the wts encourage it? The wts encouraged the life style of giving everything to further their spirituality according to them, but never was anyone forced or told what to do, the point here is where is the proof that we can take to current beleivers that the actual 'wts' said 'Ok, everybody the end is coming on such date get ready.' Fact is there is no proof besides what some speaker or some elder said or a comment that someone might've passed down. This is basically a religion that will always, no matter what, preach that the end is near no matter how many years pass and how ridiculous it sounds they will always preach that the end is near and that nobody knows the date or hour but Jehovah itself. I just don't care how many people you heard and followed that the end was coming in such year, it can't be proven besides saying that it was said from someone in the platform or some elder.

Jim_TX

I think that what we all need to keep in mind here is that 'R6Laser' fella is a yougster who was just a gleem in his daddy's eye in 1975. He didn't live it like many of us did.

He also missed out on the Cuban Missle Crisis is 1962 - but that's just another story. I'm sure that he would say that the American public distorted it out of proportion to what Prez Kennedy (and others) were saying at the time. So - my being in the First Grade at the time - and having to have 'air raid drills', which involved going out into the hall and putting our heads over our head whilst squating (I think that they called it 'Duck & Cover')... yeah... that was just made up. Not real. *rolls eyes*

R6Laser... you need to realize that we lived 1975 - and all of its' reality.

Regards,

Jim TX

Let's just get something straight about 1975.

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