Confusca wrote:
I wonder alot of times if this is a test. That we are living in the last days, and the bible does states that many will fall. I sometimes think I'm probably one of the fallen ones. Sometimes I think that there is no excuse for me leaving, that I should know that the organization is imperfect and should have faith and be humble.
These are all parts of a religious belief system we were raised with. Stay at all costs. It means your life. sounds like a fear-based teaching to me. What if it is a system we have outgrown? What if our soul wants us to leave so that we could grow? I guess if you have doubts on the inside the organization, you are going to continue to have doubts on the outside. But don't let it stop you from your growth work. Don't let fears paralyze you. The Bible says, "keep stretching forward," and "do not look at the things behind." Doubting just means that we have our own mind and we are using it. How can that be judged as "wrong"?
JWF wrote:
Wow I cant believe that I am doing this I am also a lurking elder, MTS Graduate who has not had the guts to post before Well here I am.............Lets see how this goes LOL JWF ... {also] . . .It was a child abuse case that I was involved in 6 months ago. All the advice from the Legal Department seem to conflict with common sense, I was asked to gather the evidence from the minor involved. Who was I to talk to a minor about such matters, no training etc . So I refused. which caused a great deal of trouble for me. I was then sent a link to this forum, and a few months of lurking, made me realise things are not quite right.
Sorry, JWF . . . I can't call you a Freak. 'Cuz you are just being true to your Self. Welcome to the board!
My heart goes out to you for the way you were expected to handle a child abuse case, without training. I give you credit that your ego did not get in the way of your heart, moving you to face your questions. Bless you.
WooHoo! Welcome V!
This is becoming one of the most striking threads I have seen on this site. I too, maintain an active role as a JW for many reasons...all of those reasons are humans by the way. I congratulate every new poster who has had the courage to step from the shadows. Each one of them seems to be at a different stage of awakening, yet all are intelligent and careful thinkers. All this proves to me there are so many more JWs who lurk here without posting. This is as validating for them as it is for me. How does Bethel feel about this? We know that the internet "threat" is so valid that avoiding chat rooms was listed in the 2006 DC resolution. I believe that the term "chat rooms" as used by the Society is a purposeful misnomer for their real target: discussion boards like this. But the Society's hands are tied in this information war. Any specific denunciation of JWD and the like would only send the curious here in droves. The awakening is in full swing.
Interesting to hear these expressions from people on the "inside" as to what is going on. The fearful jw teachings are actually putting curiousity into the hearts of the flock. Certainly not their intention. However, curiousity is healthy, and it is bringing the open-minded ones to explore these "dreaded sites". The awakening is indeed in full swing. Doesn't the bible say "many will rove about and the truth will become known"???
LongHairedGal wrote:
Don't I have a right to ask these questions???
Of course I would say yes, we all have a right to ask questions. We have minds---and healthy minds think and question and reason. If someone tells us to stop questioning, they I would turn that back to them by saying, "What is there to fear by questioning?"
Joe Grundy wrote:
The first rule in any child abuse case is that only those specially (and intensively) trained professionals should be involved in interviewing the victim or 'gathering the evidence'. This is done within very specific guidelines and following fairly rigid rules and procedures. The reason for this is that if it is done otherwise then in almost any jurisdiction the offender/defence would be able to argue that the victim's evidence may be 'tainted' by inappropriate leading questions, etc., and that would in many (?most?) cases lead to acquittal.
Yes, this is true. The jws feel that their way of handling these cases is more important than how the secular system would handle the matter. And the jws don't appear to care if the molester gets set free. If he gets set free they don't have to disfellowship him. Instead it justifies their saying, "Well, he's 'innocent'". The entire jw system fails child victims. In fact, their whole system completely enables child abuse. That is what happened to my cousin, who was abused by a brother from the age of one and a half years. . . yes . . . 1 1/2 years of age. The brother is still in good standing in Quebec, even though he was (and still is) a repeat child abuser. The case was a complete fiasco.
Dismemebered wrote:
I think with so many of these active elders posting, that history is being made. No doubt we look foward to more. Dismembered
Woo Hoo! I agree. This is a time to celebrate. It is a special day! Happy Canada Thanksgiving!!!
Seeker4 wrote:
He was an elder from another circuit, and I never saw him again. But the last time we talked, he handed me a letter he'd written me. It was very complimentary, but the gist of it was that, in his experience, brothers who were talented and really gave of themselves tended to be used up, drained dry and tossed aside. His note was a warning not to let that happen to me. And, of course, it did happen to me. Most of the best elders I knew are either no longer serving, or out of the Witnesses completely.
I have been observing this phenomenon as well. In one area, I saw three elders die within a few month period---all of cancer. It seemed to me that they had taken on so much of the congregational woes and they simply did not have the personal resources to handle it all. They were never taught or instructed on "self-care". So they burned out. I have been thinking since that there is a big gap that needs to be addressed. There needs to be professional training on how to handle difficult cases within the flock. The elders of course just keep saying that all one needs is the Bible and they quote a scripture from Timothy. "All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial . . ." You know the one. This experience tells me there is much more to being an elder than knowing their way around the bible.
AllanF wrote:
What was particular interesting, and sad, was that this official blamed the elders themselves rather than the Society who trained them, for all the problems reported to the Society by the rank and file. In other words, the Society views elders as generally disobedient and incompetent. This is yet another case of Watchtower leaders not wanting to admit responsibility for creating a bad situation. This attitude also proves that WTS leaders don't really believe that elders are "appointed by holy spirit", that elders make decisions that merely reflect what has already been "bound in heaven", or that God really controls what elders do when acting in an official capacity. In other words, WTS officials view elders pretty much the same as does the community of ex-JWs.
This is very telling. I learned many years ago in therapy that as long as people are pointing a finger of "blame", very little can be accomplished. When this happens at the top of a corporation, it has a trickle-down effect, I figure. Very interesting comment. Thanks for sharing this, AllanF.
Arthur wrote:
So, I would like to repeat to you: Please don't stop posting. You are an asset to this forum !
Indeed. There is no need to take anything personally. Many of us on this forum have been hurt by the JWs, JCs, or elders; but these men are not them! What is being said in these threads may be bringing up some issue(s) of our own, our emotions may come up. Just remember, it's our own issue. We are all in various stages of healing. Until we are healed, these issues do arise on occasion. It gives us opportunity to see our progress and what else we can learn from the issue arising yet again. It gives us an anchor to measure our growth. Remember, these elders posting here are also hurting. Let's allow them their time and space to travel their own healing journey. Let's support each other in our healing journeys, okay? Just remember where we were at and what we believed when we left---or were forced out. We are each entitled to our healing journey.
We might choose to see any criticizms in the same light as going door-to-door. Not everyone agreed, right? Life goes on.
willyloman wrote:
The talk is supposed to cover the blood policy in some detail. Guy gets up and speaks and essentially says, "We don't take blood under any circumstances and never will; it's a fundamental part of our religion." He then quotes from several WT publications, not one of which is newer than the early 1980s! He completely mislead his listeners as to the recent and more liberal JW positions on the medical use of blood and based the entire presentation on his personal opinion, which was apparently formed in 1972 and had not changed. Afterwards, I asked the PO if he planned to discuss this with him. The PO, for those who don't know, assigns all the parts on the service meeting and is responsible for counseling speakers who don't do a good job. He looked at me with a blank stare and said, "Why? I thought he did okay." What do they call that, a light bulb moment? That's what I had. As seeker put it: The most important life and death issue the organization has, and the guys in charge of teaching this stuff thought -- no, they knew -- it didn't matter whether they got it right or wrong.
My eyes are bugging out!!! I get the feeling this was exactly how the elder wanted things to go!!!
Skally wrote:
Oh, just a little sidenote zarco on elders and their deep concern for the flock. My mom ended up marrying the very elder who disfellowshipped three of her kids...can you help me process this insanity? For him to actually pursue her AFTER he cans her kids is one thing. For her to marry him, after breaking up the family he already had, is the rawest of my nervousations. (Don't worry, if I were a loving elder as yourself, I would not want to even try to process this question into a logical reply...you are off the hook brother)
OMG!!! This is mind blowing. Truth is stranger than fiction. I can't even fathom the process by which that may have transpired. And I don't need to. I do know that I have no regrets for my having been pushed out the door. Because I believe I have set the example for my kids to leave. One day they will, as I have. Then I'll have them back in my life. Maybe on their own steam, rather than being "pushed" out. That would be nice.
Velta wrote:
I thought if they are not honest about this, what else have they lied about. It was the beginning of my journey out and when I shared it with my hubby he could see it too. He was about 3 months behind me in leaving. I am grateful for that.(that he came out too) . . . But many times I could tell that he was disturbed by what went on. I later found out that he had a hard time judging adversely some of the things because it seemed to him that the evidince was not conclusive, but the others wanted to disfellowship anyway and sometimes he felt compelled to go along. As time went on, he said it got harder and toward the last, he would abstain from voting, even though pressured to go along. There is a lot of emotional decisions that Elders are called on to make and sometimes, if they have a heart for their brothers and truth, they are hard. Some Elders apparently are able to make these decisions without remorse, but others cannot. I hear the concerns of the Elders who are posting and I know how hard it is for them to make the decision to leave or stay. It is not a decision that can be made lightly. My advice, from what I have learned is this: Ask for Holy Spirit to guide you. God will put in your heart the right thing for you to do. If He wants you out, you will not be able to stay. I wanted to, because of my son and his family and for my mom and my sister and her family, but I just could not. I began to feel sick to my stomach at the meetings, so I just stopped going. I went to my last meeting, the Memorial in April, 1983. This is a serious and personal decision. No one can make it for you. I feel bad that some feel they have to drag others out. . . . I was privileged to hear so much insight in this thread. I was also glad to see the love and understanding extended to those who are in this quandary to "leave or not leave". We need to extend UNCONDITIONAL love to one another. We should not condemn, just encourage each one in whatever circumstances they are in.
Wise words. Velta, I'm so glad for you that you and your husband both "got out" together.
Indeed, to the struggling elders here, if you are meant to leave you will find your way out of the organization. No one can decide how or when, except you. I bless you.
Maybe they won't acknowledge me because I'm disfellowshipped . . .
ESTEE
