I am a "semi-apologist"!

by slimboyfat 75 Replies latest jw friends

jayhawk1

Alligator,
It is interesting to see you say this...
Really though, who cares what the WTS teached if it isn't from the Bible?
I care. They say everything they teach is bible based and comes from Jehovah, do they not? So you had better believe I care if it doesn't.
One post back I said this...
A pioneer once put this senerio out to discuss. "Let's say you have a glass of pure water. 100% pure water, no preservatives or additives. The water represents pure Bible truth. Now I am going to remove 10% of the water and replace it with a deadly poison. Would you drink the glass of water? Would you accept a Bible study knowing 10% of what a religion taught, came from another source other than Jehovah?"
Funny how this pioneer gave me a senerio that actually caused me to quit the JWs.
AlanF asked this...
So I have a couple of questions for you: Knowing that Witness leaders have committed a number of serious crimes against the JW community and are not about to repent, do you think that they have God's approval? If not, why would a sincere Christian continue giving lip service to loyalty to them?
I am curious what your reply will be. No, don't get me wrong, I am not gettin on you about your religion. If it makes you happy, I can respect that. But there must be something that causes you to think independently from the Watchtower's publications. I'm curious what that might be and how you justify going, knowing you have something that keeps you from buying in 100%. I've been taught since I was a small child that if you don't buy in 100%, you are not going to be saved. I'm just wondering how you do it.
integ

I am a semi-Michael Lodtzogist.
Ironhead

My wife is a semi-apologist, and it really annoys me. She's seen the damage caused by the society, but keeps saying they make mistakes because they're imperfect. I told her that the Catholic church made mistakes, why didn't people wait on Jehovah before reforming their own religions. She went to her mother's in a huff, because she didn't have a answer, making this our second separation. She wants to come back, but I can't listen to her semi-apologist views and comments.
Alligator Wisdom

Good morning all! (Where I'm at it's morning). I couldn't believe that I stayed up almost until 4:30am or so on the forum last night. Yikes! But the topic was interesting.
AlanF asked : Knowing that Witness leaders have committed a number of serious crimes against the JW community and are not about to repent, do you think that they have God's approval?
Whether or not they repent or make admissions would be up to them and not for us to say that they will not. That is between them and God Almighty. I personally don't think it should concern me if they have or get God's approval or not. Should it really? That again, is between them and God Almighty. What does God care if I think the WTS should burn or if I think that they should be extended mercy? Who am I? What really matters is what Jehovah God thinks. Not me. He will approve or not thru his Son Christ Jesus as judge. I will be happy with the final decision of God. It will be just and fair. Besides, this matter applies to all of us as we are all subject to God's favor and approval on an individual basis (Romans 14:12).
Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
itsallgoodnow

slimboyfat said JWs are not an evil cult, just good bible loving people. Your words here and your actions don't really compute. You are fully aware what these good natured people would do if they really knew you didn't believe in their teachings and posted on an apostate message board. I'm sorry you still feel like you must go the meetings and in field service. You seem to be able to shrug off most of the conflicting feelings a lot of us are bombarded with, and I think that's probably hard for a lot of people here to understand. But you seem to have found a way to look at your situation with a sort of perspective that keeps you feeling like you are in control. Whatever you need to do, man. I understand.
Underbeliever -- my heart goes out to you in your situation. it's one thing to be wasting your own life, but you are also worried about your own kids, too. and you are in a tough spot on that one. just know that kids are a lot smarter than we think. encourage them to think critically and trust their instincts. even if you drag them to the meetings, they can pick up on how "into it" you are really well. I always knew my parents were both super believers and I could never cross them about any of it. If I had a parent who I thought might not snap if I questioned the faith, things might have turned out completely differently for me. However, you never know just how much of what they are hearing and learning is reaching their hearts, ie is turning them into a lifetime believer, so it's gonna be tricky.
for anyone stuck in who feels like they must put in field service time, I want to say 2 things.
1) everyone who tried to make them feel like crap for it needs to shut up. you don't know what type of "time" is being put in. are they showing up for the service meeting and taking off? are they walking around and not ringing doorbells? are they just reading a scripture from the bible and not leaving watchtowers? You don't know, so you really shouldn't judge.
2) if you are stuck in this situation where you are doing field service, this is a rare opportunity to undermine the efforts of others you are in service with. If you note the addresses of their return visits and bible studies, you can easily send these people an anonymous letter explaining the true nature of the JW religion. If you leave literature with someone, you can make sure there are several pages inside with a sticker explaining how this literature is cult propaganda and the person distributing it is doing so against their will.
I haven't done actual field service in so long and I've gotten around it by turning in fake hours and telling my family I went out with someone from another hall. Not a lot of time, but enough to get by. I haven't turned in time in months and nobody has talked to me about it at all.
jayhawk1

Alligator,
I can't wait until you get up again. Your attitude is refreshing. You said...
Whether or not they repent or make admissions would be up to them and not for us to say that they will not. That is between them and God Almighty. I personally don't think it should concern me if they have or get God's approval or not. Should it really? That again, is between them and God Almighty. What does God care if I think the WTS should burn or if I think that they should be extended mercy? Who am I? What really matters is what Jehovah God thinks. Not me. He will approve or not thru his Son Christ Jesus as judge. I will be happy with the final decision of God. It will be just and fair. Besides, this matter applies to all of us as we are all subject to God's favor and approval on an individual basis (Romans 14:12).
I would agree with what you've said here. But I am puzzled about one thing. You apparently practice as a JW and go to the meetings. At least that is my impression. Let's say they don't have God's approval, why read anything they publish? If they don't have God's approval, then they don't have God's backing on anything. That means God does not support the literature they produce. On more than one occasion they have published that they are God's prophet class on Earth. If they are not backed by God, and you attend meetings they provide, shouldn't that concern you?
Now I'm not saying that if you attend meetings that God has not supported, by extention you are not supported by God. No way am I saying that. I believe you can be a good guy and be supported by God without buying into something not supported by God. I hope you understand that distinction. I just not sure how you can not be concerned in the least about what information you receive from Watchtower.
Man, I wish Thirdwitness was more like you. It would have been nice to have had a real discussion without the canned garbage he heaped on the board.
Alligator Wisdom

Hi Jayhawk1, thanks for your input. I appreciate it.
You wrote : I care. They say everything they teach is bible based and comes from Jehovah, do they not? So you had better believe I care if it doesn't.
What I meant when I asked "Who cares what the WTS teaches if it isn't from the Bible?" is that those who are confident of their relationship with Jehovah God shouldn't let a human organization faze nor dictate their faith. In fact, shouldn't it work the other way around? Maybe you can attest to the fact from your journey and experience. When we see the fleshly and meager human efforts that the WTS maybe putting forth, wouldn't that make us rely more on what is far more reliable and trustworthy?
The WTS may make the claim that they teach Bible based doctrine and it comes from Jehovah, but can't anyone do so? The Bible along with the Holy Spirit are what Jehovah God uses to help us follow Christ, not the WTS. Sorry if I made you feel badly from how I word things. I know that you care because you are seeking the truth. So am I. But should we be overly concerned what the WTS teaches if it isn't from the Bible? It would be like hearing dish soap commercials. Yes, aren't they always new and improved and far better than their leading competitors. That's what these dish soap companies always say. I, for one, am not overly concerned nor does it have any bearing on how I wash dishes. I might prefer one or the other. I might even change brands if it suits me. Only the results will help me make the decision. Yes, only the results from Jehovah will help me follow the path the he gave us thru his Son Christ Jesus (John 14:6).
I've been taught since I was a small child that if you don't buy in 100%, you are not going to be saved. I'm just wondering how you do it.
Who taught you that? What exactly did those ones use as a basis for such reasoning? Human opinion or the Bible. Share that with me. How do I do it you ask? Good question. I always have to face life itself and the many challenges that somehow appear, but I don't try to dwell on human organizations or ideas. That would set me back. My quest is to worship Jehovah God in "spirit and truth" (John 4:24) and to love him entirely (Mark 12:30). If I focus on the God of the Bible, than other things seem a bit more simple or clear and relieves much complications. Remember, everlasting life is guaranteed. What are such petty things as what the WTS teaches in comparison to the real life mentioned at Timothy 6:19. Jehovah will take care of everything. If I know that, than I can do it.
I acknowledge and welcome the honesty and candor of many of the posters on this board. I felt that I was shown a certain amount of respect on here regardless of what I believe. Of course, that doesn't really matter in the big picture as I would like to find what is important to Jehovah as what should really be paramount to me.
Best Regards,
Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
Alligator Wisdom

Hey everyone on this page (especially the moderators)!
Why are my IP addresses different for my posts? Take a look. I'm not computer savvy but I detect something wrong. Can someone explain this to me now as I probably stand to be accused of multiple personalities? I know that this has happened before with others and they were incriminated or under the suspicion of doing something dastardly and deceitful.
I will tell you honestly that I'm sitting and posting/lurking on my one and only computer at home.
Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
jayhawk1

Alligator,
I will do the best I can to go point by point on your last post. I enjoyed reading it.
Hi Jayhawk1, thanks for your input. I appreciate it.
You wrote : I care. They say everything they teach is bible based and comes from Jehovah, do they not? So you had better believe I care if it doesn't.
What I meant when I asked "Who cares what the WTS teaches if it isn't from the Bible?" is that those who are confident of their relationship with Jehovah God shouldn't let a human organization faze nor dictate their faith. In fact, shouldn't it work the other way around? Maybe you can attest to the fact from your journey and experience. When we see the fleshly and meager human efforts that the WTS maybe putting forth, wouldn't that make us rely more on what is far more reliable and trustworthy?
In a short answer, yes. I can say it has been a long time since I considered Watchtower reliable and trustworthy.
The WTS may make the claim that they teach Bible based doctrine and it comes from Jehovah, but can't anyone do so? The Bible along with the Holy Spirit are what Jehovah God uses to help us follow Christ, not the WTS. Sorry if I made you feel badly from how I word things. I know that you care because you are seeking the truth. So am I. But should we be overly concerned what the WTS teaches if it isn't from the Bible? It would be like hearing dish soap commercials. Yes, aren't they always new and improved and far better than their leading competitors. That's what these dish soap companies always say. I, for one, am not overly concerned nor does it have any bearing on how I wash dishes. I might prefer one or the other. I might even change brands if it suits me. Only the results will help me make the decision. Yes, only the results from Jehovah will help me follow the path the he gave us thru his Son Christ Jesus (John 14:6).
Look we all know "Paulmolive softens hands while we do dishes." Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week!
Seriously, I see your point. Any religion can claim to be the one. My feeling since leaving the JWs is all religions share certain common beliefs. I believe those common beliefs is probably the true path to God. Everything else is just extra traditions put in place by man.
I've been taught since I was a small child that if you don't buy in 100%, you are not going to be saved. I'm just wondering how you do it.
Who taught you that? What exactly did those ones use as a basis for such reasoning? Human opinion or the Bible. Share that with me. How do I do it you ask? Good question. I always have to face life itself and the many challenges that somehow appear, but I don't try to dwell on human organizations or ideas. That would set me back. My quest is to worship Jehovah God in "spirit and truth" (John 4:24) and to love him entirely (Mark 12:30). If I focus on the God of the Bible, than other things seem a bit more simple or clear and relieves much complications. Remember, everlasting life is guaranteed. What are such petty things as what the WTS teaches in comparison to the real life mentioned at Timothy 6:19. Jehovah will take care of everything. If I know that, than I can do it.
The elder who studied with me before I became baptized told me that was how it was in so many words. The baptism questions that all JWs are asked before the baptism happens also say so in so many words.
I acknowledge and welcome the honesty and candor of many of the posters on this board. I felt that I was shown a certain amount of respect on here regardless of what I believe. Of course, that doesn't really matter in the big picture as I would like to find what is important to Jehovah as what should really be paramount to me.
Feel free to share whatever it is you discover. Even if I disagree with it, I respect the opinion of somebody that doesn't come here to preach, but rather to discuss.
So do you regularly attend meetings? Does others in your congregation share your feelings and discuss them openly? If that was to happen in my former Kingdom Hall, I would have been disfellowshipped for starting my own religion. That actually happened to a guy I know near here.
jayhawk1

Alligator, I have no idea why your IP address changed. It would be worth knowing.
Hey Mods... Why are some of the IP addresses changing?

I am a "semi-apologist"!

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