by jimbo 64 Replies latest jw friends
check out David Icke
I attended one of his lectures because I worked at the hall where he appeared, otherwise am not attracted to this type of stuff. I must say, however, that he was absolutely fascinating.
Thank you Jaguar for putting this discussion into perspective - it is entertaining to speculate from a safe distance. All I ask is that we be respectful without resorting to name-calling and condescension.
However, when it comes to the WTS, all bets are off!
this is something i posted a couple of years ago. just some observations about what was reported by the media from oficial sources like the FBI. this post assumes you know the official version of what happened that day as what i posted is countering what was reported.
is this a pic of "Atta" and "Alomari" making their way to board flight 11 at Boston? No, it isnt. this was taken at Portland, Maine not Boston. Boston Logon had no surveillance cameras in the departure lounge. strange that they had them at Portland, a small airport but not Boston, an international airport.
notice the 2 different time codes, one in the centre (which is the last place you would put it) and the one on the bottom (where you would put it) that shows only 6 mins before the plane left Portland?
that pic supposedly shows Atta and Alormari, although its now shown not to be Alomari 'cause he's been found alive and well. lets say this is Atta. why would the leader of the biggest plane hijack in history, taking years of planning, risk flying into Boston that morning and giving himself only an hour and a quarter between landing in Boston from Portland and taking off on flight 11? why would he wait until the day before to book his ticket? USAir flight 5930 was scheduled to depart at 6am, Atta had 6 mins to get from security, from where the pic was taken, to boarding! the FBI claims they both checked out of their hotel in Portland at 5.33am, just 27 mins before their plane was due to depart and then they had to park their rental car, check in and get to the gate. Anyone who travels by air knows that if you leave it that late you are highly likely to miss the flight. not only did the organiser of the biggest hijack in history take the chance of flying into Boston on a connecting flight that morning, he arrived so late that the Portland plane left only minutes after he got to the gate. and he only secured a seat the day before! all that planning and he took those risks of not even getting to Boston? what was it the washington post said about the "...astonishing degree of organisation and planning undertaken by the terrorists"?
lets say the time code in the center of the pic is true, it would mean Atta and friend must have checked out of their hotel, taken their car to the airport carpark, checked in and passed through security to the gate in all of 12 mins!
other "hijackers" arrived at Boston airport at about 7.15am, so the official story goes. the car contained 5 arab men who had a window sticker allowing them access to restricted areas of the airport, says the FBI. an unidentified "witness" claimed to have seen them arguing over a parking space. Ok, so its 7.15amvand their flight's departing at 8.00am, and they're still in the car park, yet to check in and go through security to the gate. so, "5 arab men" leave it ridiculously late to arrive at the airport, on that day of all days, risking long cues at check-in, and wasted more time arguing over a parking spot? years of planning this took did it? more worried about a parking space were they? not only this but thay bought their tickets in cash when they arrived at the airport! reportedly paying $4,500 for their last minute first class tickets. David Boeri on NewsCenter 5 in Boston reported :
"sources say at least four suspects, described as middle-eastern men arrived late to the airport, purchased one-way tickets and paid in cash for them, all of those factors being known security risk flags"
wouldnt "highly trained" hijackers have known this, and why didnt they book their tickets long before that day?
the other airports planes were hijacked from had cameras in the departure lounges, but where was the the video footage? we see "Atta" at portland, so why not the other hijackers at the other airports?
and of all the luggage of all the passengers on all the airlines in the world on that day of all days, it was Atta's bag or bags that didnt make it onto flight 11. of course, the FBI says it found in his bags, along with a note on how Atta was willing to be a martyr in a holy war against infidels, a copy of the Koran, a saudi passport, and amazingly a video of how to fly a comercial airliner.
Why would a man who is about to fly a passenger jet into the world trade center take bags with him and check them into the hold? but miracles do happen *thinking of the passport*.
and here's some great syncronicity too: the car the "5 hijakers" parked at Boston had inside a copy of the Koran, a fuel consumption calculator and a flight training manual written in Arabic on how to fly a 767.
the FBI made a bad error in releasing "extracts" from the note and other notes from other hijackers which included instructions and most importantly prayers, which muslims and investigative journalists trashed as fake because the way they were written shows no muslim would have written what Atta suposedly did.
these are supposed to be just some of the "facts" of the official version of events of 911.
Busy bee- My comment was about Americans in general and even thought it was tongue in cheek I'll stand by it! Most American's are woefully ignorant of the real situation in the world and how "real life" works!
I'll give you an example from this ridiculous theory. When flight 93 went off their scheduled routes the military immediately went on high alert and called them on the radio and said "land the plane." When they wouldn't they shot them down! Now that's a simplified version of course but that's the jist of it right? Well guess what there are planes flying all over this country with no one monitoring or even paying attention to them! I've never, that's right NEVER filed a flight plan... Well maybe once in training just to get the training!
I've flown all over the south eastern united states over savannah and jacksonville hell I've flown DIRECTLY over the sub base at kings bay GA and Naval station mayport many times with NO FLIGHT PLAN! No body is 'in charge' there is no universal radio frequency! When someone pulls up beside a plane in a movie and speaks on the radio ITS CRAP! They don't have a clue what channel the radio is on! When I used to fly into some of the little airports you could call and ask for a weather report from the service (if they had one) most of the time there was no one there to answer at all! Once I saw the guy running into the building from MOWING THE GRASS to call me! Now if you asked most american's they have this Star Trek vision of what goes on at the airport and how everything that moves above 10 foot of the ground is monitored...
It's, well it's simply retarded...
Pleasure dome- I agree with most of the points you make. What I think your failing to take into account though is what a cluster f*ck our "intelligence" and police services are! Did you know that over 60% of murders in this country go unsolved?! That's discounting the fact that hundreds of 'murders' are never even reported as murders but are listed as simply 'missing person' or 'endangered missing!' So the true number is probably in the mid 80%'s Home burglary, car theft, rape, assault etc very very few are solved at all! The pinnacle of law, order and organization this country AIN'T!
My CC was stolen about 3 years ago and used to the tune of about 2000 bucks... I KNEW WHO DID IT! I KNEW where they lived! I told the police. They got the the video's from the ATM'S it was CLEARLY the guy I said! So they ran right over to his house right? WRONG! It took them MONTHS to arrest him! Literaly MONTHS! He was in jail for less time than it took them to arrest his sorry butt! So he got out and was ordered to pay restitution. In the 2 years or so since he has made about 6 payments... I call the state, they say they will chase him down... (I give them his address and tell them where he works...) nothing happens. I call them back and go through it again! THESE PEOPLE ARE BOOBS! If they were collectors for a business they would ALL be fired!
If they have even one picture that might, just MIGHT be the guy, I'm amazed! We had a guy killing prostitutes here in Jax. He killed 10 or so over the course of about five years. He killed most of them BEFORE THEY EVEN STARTED LOOKING FOR HIM! Well, they were just reported missing right? WRONG! They had found the bodies! He didn't even HIDE them! So we've got bodies turning up at the end of old roads all over town, raped, obviously murdered, and the police don't even have a formal investigation going!? WFT! He raped one and half killed her. She got away and went to the police. She gave them a description, a car description and a LICENCE PLATE NUMBER! So they went right to his house right? Heck no! They didn't even open the investigation then! It was nearly TWO YEARS later (and 3 or 4 more victims) before they could be bothered to do that!
Saying the complete and total incompetence of our government proves that there is something going on is the exact OPPISITE of reality! These guys couldn't make a decent ham sandwich much less plan a massive conspiracy! Hell they couldn't plan a cross country trip to Vegas much less anything COMPLICATED! Come on think about who we're talking about here!
My wife flew to NY on the 15th of August they opened her purse to search it and found a cheap lighter the TSA moron said "you can't have that" and handed back her purse (less the Bic lighter) that was the end of the search... SHE HAD TWO MORE LIGHTERS IN THE PURSE! These morons are so dumb they didn't even keep searching! She could have had a damn GUN in there but they were so busy finding one of the three lighters and looking at her shoes they would never have found anything else! We realistically expect these dim bulbs to find a bomb?
See your making the same mistake that many make by assuming that ANYONE in ANY layer of government has the slightest SHRED of brains!
Just to point out some obvious facts about the government (for whom I work):
1) they will happily spend thousands of dollars figuring out who to blame for losing a seven dollar screwdriver.
2) They can't even keep personal information of millions of veterans safe, instead letting an employee take it home on a laptop - where it was stolen.
3) Their major contributions include the Sacajawea dollar, the Susan B. Anthony dollar, and the conversion to the metric system. None of which have been even remotely successful.
4) The complexity of rallying nineteen highly motivated, trained, martyrdom-inclined young men to steer planes into buildings pales in comparison with getting enough cordite into the WTC to utterly destroy it - not to mention THEN having to get nineteen young men to perform a redundant action. They just aren't that good. If they were, you'd never know about it.
5) while jet fuel might not melt steel, it will certainly soften it and then the structure will collapse under the weight - study the engineering of modern skyscrapers and you'll see how little is holding you up.
5) I appreciate you wanting to explore all angles, but think - the simplest way there is the easiest way there. This administration no doubt wanted to go to war - but think about it! They didn't HAVE to blow up 3000 Americans to do it. Remember the Maine... eh?
CZAR
Maybe we should consider the Physics behind what happened instead of the 'politics' that your link shows. http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html
I see that not one of the conspiracy believers has answered that perennial, fundamental chestnut of a conspiracy question, raised by seeker and others:
Of the thousands of people who would have had to be in on the conspiracy, why has not a single one come forward and admitted their part in it? Why have there been no leaks?
The X-Files had nanomachines inside people's bodies, which could kill them in an instant. Therefore they kept quiet to keep from dying. How is the Bush administration pulling it off?
Until I see an objectively plausible answer to this question, I will continue to reject this conspiracy theory.
Busy bee- My comment was about Americans in general and even thought it was tongue in cheek I'll stand by it! Most American's are woefully ignorant of the real situation in the world and how "real life" works!
No argument when you put it like that! (Said the bishop to the actress.)
Sounds so much better than 'retarded,' which, believe it or not, could offend some people.
mkr32208
While it is true that you can do a good deal of flying without filing a flight plan providing that you fly VFR (Visual Flight Rules) and stay out of controlled air space, I assure you that most military and civilian airliners fly IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) and are carefully monitored. In some 18 years of military flying, we were always in contact with one control center or another and depended on them to keep us separated from folks like you who fly without filing. Hopefully you had your transponder on when you were bouncing around the skies so that you showed up on radar. It is a requirement to monitor guard channel (121.5 VHF or 243 UHF) whenever you fly IFR and we could always reach anyone we needed to on that frequency. I've read the transcripts of the control agencies during that time and noted a great deal of confusion about where everybody was. One of the first things the hijackers did was to turn off their transponders. Modern radars don't "skin paint" very well in a crowded sky. The situation was complicated by the information blackout conducted by American Airlines which apparently is policy whenever one of their craft goes down. The hijackers clearly caught us "napping". Perhaps the two aircraft headed for D.C. would have been shot down if the control agencies had been better organized. As it turned out, one crashed into the Pentagon and the passengers took out the other.
czar of mischief makes some excellent points regarding the degree of coordination that would have been required to carry out a conspiracy of that magnitude. Never going to happen! I've also read the American Society of Civil Engineer's Report on the collapse. The structural design of the WTC was very unusual with most of the vertical support being in the exterior of the building. Once the steel support for the floors above the impact floors had softened on the exterior and the central core, there was nothing to stop the "pancaking". The lower floors were not designed to handle the impact load of the floors above crashing down.
Sounds so much better than 'retarded,' which, believe it or not, could offend some people.Yeah retarded ones....
(Its a joke!)
...I assure you that most military and civilian airliners fly IFR (Instrument Flight Rules... Hopefully you had your transponder on when you were bouncing around the skies so that you showed up on radar... It is a requirement to monitor guard channel (121.5 VHF or 243 UHF) whenever you fly IFR and we could always reach anyone we needed to on that frequency... One of the first things the hijackers did was to turn off their transponders Modern radars don't "skin paint" very well in a crowded sky The situation was complicated by the information blackout conducted by American Airlines which apparently is policy whenever one of their craft goes down...
More proof of my point! We actually flew short business hops all the time with no flight plan! Heck we flew a couple times with only one working radio which would of course be tuned to the approach frequency of the airspace where we were headed! So no 121.5 calling us! I've flown up in planes that didn't even HAVE a trasnsponder AT ALL! That was my point! All the terrorist had to do was turn of the transponder and disappear! Hell the transponder is one of the first pieces of equipment you learn how to use in flight training!
But This is my entire point there is no universal frequency no master tower that monitors everything in the sky! Heck what percentage of US airspace is uncontrolled? 80? 85? Sure once you get to 19000 feet its controlled but it's still not MONITORED! You could fly around most of this country for days and never have a problem even the MOA's aren't usually active! So when the nut's say "the second that plane deviated the president should have known about it... Well they clearly don't understand the realities of how the US airspace functions!
